Debate This: Glitching
April 2, 2009 302 Comments
Debate This is an ongoing feature which provides an opportunity for open discussion on various video game-related topics. Those who know how to debate in a mature and respectful manner are encouraged to participate. Present your opinion, but be prepared to defend it.
Throwing an objective object through a wall. Super bouncing to incredible heights simply by crouching. Pushing a specific sequence of buttons that disrupts animations and leads to advantageous player effects. Meleeing through what should be solid barriers. Informally defined as “the practice of finding and exploiting flaws in video games to achieve something that was not intended by the game designers,” different people have different viewpoints on the sometimes touchy subject of glitching. Exploiting various programming faults is sometimes an innocent and entertaining way to add replay value to your solo campaign experience. It’s also sometimes a purposeful way to gain the upperhand in the multiplayer world of matchmaking.
Much like spawn killing, glitching often falls in a blurry, gray area. Some more aggressive players will exploit anything at their immediate disposal in order to achieve that elusive win. Glitching is fair play in their eyes due to the fact that it is readily available to all players. Other people file it under unsportsmanship like conduct and in certain circumstances, even cheating. Anybody who’s familiar with the multplayer aspect of gaming is familiar with this phenomenon, either by doing it or having it performed against them so let’s duke this one out. Debate This: Are you opposed to, in favor of, or indifferent to purposely glitching in multiplayer gaming? Have you ever exploited faults in a specific video game’s programming to gain an advantage against an opponent? And why or why not?
Well if it’s in single player or a custom game with friends, that’s fine. But in matchmaking it’s just not cool. Play the game right for pete’s sake.
I agree with Crazed. Keep it out of online multi-player. In my opinion, it says a lot about a person or team that has to resort to glitching to gain an upper hand.
doesnt bungie support glitching by allowing the use of geomerged and intersected objects into matchmaking? and i know that it is a different type of glitching but it is using an unintended bug in the game is it not? or did they intend for you to break the laws of physics and make 2 objects ocupy the same space?
The developers do not care for glitches that make the game “better” they actually like them, but glitches used as weapons are frowned upon.
if its readily available to everyone than its fine by me.
The game is made a certain way for a reason. Glitches complicate things, frustrate people, and are not the purpose of the game. Glitches, in fact, ruin multiplayer experiences.
SOCOM 2 for PS2 had amazing multiplayer. Then, when a couple people found out a few glitches, everyone used them. The online experience dwindled exponentially and quickly. Nobody remembers SOCOM 2 online as it was before the glitches, only that everyone used glitches.
Wonder why Halo 3 Matchmaking is still popular, and in fact rising in popularity an entire year (or 2, I forgot) later? One giant reason is because glitching is not allowed. People who glitch get a permanent ban directly from Bungie. This is one of the reasons nobody gets frustrated (easily) from playing in Matchmaking. This is also the reason why it is still played by tens of thousands of people daily.
Glitching has no place in the gaming community. All game companies should keep as close an eye on glitchers just as Bungie does.
actually there are almost 1 million people playing halo 3 each day
mytwocents (13:49:09) :
actually there are almost 1 million people playing halo 3 each day
That hasn’t happen since Dec,2007…
Sorry…you’re completely wrong…if you glitch you do NOT get a permanent ban…Cheating and Glitching is COMPLETELY different. Glitching has every right to be in games…in fact game developers love Glitchers so they can resolve the glitch…..And frankly the only reason Halo 3′s Matchmaking is Still going strong is its more for lack of a better word “User Friendly”..(its easier for newer players tooo play..) Which is a downside to the game…
But your statement that glitching is a permanent ban is COMPLETELY FALSE.
You’re being to literal. Glitching as stated in the article can include things like the infamous BXR of Halo 2, Superjumps etc. If those glitches were played in Halo 3 Matchmaking well after they have been noted then yes, you will be banned. Albeit not permanently.
So true. WOOT for the Banhammer!!!
If a person wants to glitch in their single player experience, fine. If they are only impacting their own experience, I see no harm at all.
Leave it out of multiplayer though. When your actions cause you to have some kind of unfair advantage, or have an effect the game developer didn’t intend for you to have (see the Call of Duty World At War glitch that causes you to drop outside the boundaries of the map and still be able to shoot other people), then you are ruining other people’s gaming experiences. When there is nothing a person can do to “stop” it from happening, it can turn you away from a game really quickly. Using the glitch yourself to level the playing field is not an acceptable approach in my eyes.
When you start impacting someone elses fun, then it’s time to stop doing it. Too bad there are just some people out there that don’t even want to play the games, they just use glitches and cheats to make sure that people who do like the game can’t have fun playing it. These people need to find what it is in their lives that truly make THEM unhappy and fix it.
I played halo 2 for a very long time and the most prominent glitches were the button glitches. I played team hardcore so It was a must know skill in order to really compete at the highest level. But then the next person will probably say, “so you had to cheat to compete?” No. Let me Explain. In my opinion, the button glitches in halo 2 made the game quicker, raised the level of intensity and even raised the level of flash the game had. Everyone had an equal oppertunity to do the double melee, double shot, double double shot and BXR glitch. What happened was that it actually took skill to do effectively. Now someone might say, “It takes no skill to cheat” However, the button glitches were an exception. For instance, if you were a shot even two shots from a br down, you could (assuming you were good enough) turn around and kill the person shooting you in the back. Who has the advantage? Well the person two shots up, should be able to finish the person in two more shots before they pull off 4 rapid shots. I dont find these glitches as exploits or cheats. In frequent situations they balanced the game out.
On the other hand, glitches such as reaching areas out of reach to gain an upper hand, hide or anything that gives a huge advantage, I feel is highly unfair. True, everyone had equal oppertunity to get to such an area but chances were very slim, and actually hurts the games gameplay. I could go on about this debate, but its rather long already.
Glitching is ok in two cases, otherwise it’s cheating. If A) it’s agreed that you could glitch before the match starts (Like some Halo 2 competitions, as far as I know it was agreed upon that BXR type glitches were acceptable) or B) The developer says the glitch is kosher. In some cases a glitch will be found and the developer will leave it in rather than patch it because they think that it actually makes the game more interesting/better in some way. If they say it helps you play the game as they intended then I don’t see why it isn’t ok.
Otherwise it’s cheating. Kind of like going twice in a row in chess… Sure you can do it but it’s cheating unless it was agreed upon earlier or the creator of chess says it’s ok. Seeing as how the latter’ll never happen, it falls to the former… and rules like this pop all the time and it’s just fine. It’ll never be universally accepted as not cheating though.
I’ve read several responses, that over simplified, stated that if it’s readily available to everyone then it should be ok, but lets widen the range of what is readily available to everyone. Any simple tech geek, pardon the phrase, can want to become an expert and all he/she has to do is look up mods on google and within seconds they will have a healthy amount of info on how to mod any computer, console, and software they want. So, since that is also readily available to us all, then should we all be able to mod and exploit our systems and networks to its fullest potential? In my opinion, no
Yeah, what he said. Not cool in matchmaking, IMO.
I mean yeah, it’s in the game, but you know they weren’t sitting in the office saying “Hey, let’s throw in the ability to BXB or BXR. And let people jump really, really high when they hit this certain ledge just right.” All those little quirks and glitches just happen to be bugs and dust in the programming that happened accidentally. And they usually find and fix them when they see it’s becoming a problem.
Of course, I was never able to superjump or quad shot no matter how many times my friends tried to teach me, so maybe I just feel like a loser with a vendetta against such things. Remember, remember, the Fifth of November…
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot…
Win
I have to admit I could do pretty much all of the Halo 2 glitches, and did occasionally use them in Matchmaking, then realised how much of a little pussy I was being and stopped.
I still used them in custom games when messing around with friends, I only used them in matchmaking when the other team would use them, to level the playing field unless they still sucked and would whoop them without using them.
it isn’t cheating, it was built into the game. It’s only cheating if you manually manipulated the game itself by altering the code, modding it, or bringing in some external modifier.
How far do you go in defining glitching? The flag was made much heavier in H3. Was this done to curb players from tossing the flag when trying to capture? What about getting up on top of Seawall in Last Resort? Did they intend us to be there? At what point does it cease to be skill in manipulating the mechanics of the game and features of the map, and become cheating?
I admit to trying to capture the flag through the floor on Terminal. I’ve crouched coming out of the Man Cannon in Valhalla and bounced my way up the hill. Am I cheating?
I prefer to categorize manipulation of the connection as cheating, and glitching as unsportsman-like.
“At what point does it cease to be skill in manipulating the mechanics of the game and features of the map, and become cheating?”
You hit the nail on the head. Manipulation (in these terms) is defined as: “to fudge: tamper, with the purpose of deception.”
Manipulation is cheating. Manipulating the maps, objects, networks etc. Its all cheating because the game was not meant to be played that way. Going beyond what was intended is cheating IF in doing so you ruin the game play experience for other players.
Manipulation in a single-player game is still cheating, but you are only cheating yourself.
But I agree, its unsportsmanlike.
I disagree. Manipulation is too close in that sense to also mean technique. If you are your buddies all run together on Narrows and dominate the opposing team by getting multiple fire on single enemies, you’re manipulating the 1v1 mechanics heavily in your favor. If you drive over to the other base in Valhalla with 3 people in the warthog, just for the passenger to get out and grab the other vehicle and steal it, to go pick up a gunner so your team can have run of the map in warthogs (or same for the Banshees), you’re just using technique to work the score in your favor. Just because the other team doesn’t have the organization or the knowledge of specific techniques that work better (such as shooting the floor with the flamethrower, instead of directly at someone, so that it burns in the physical space longer and potentially lighting more enemies than just your single initial target) then you’re *also* manipulating.
Well technically stealing the other teams vehicles and burning the floor isn’t glitching. Getting a flag through a wall or super bouncing is.
that makes sense… I’m with ^^^this guy
Able = guy who doesnt understand wat a glitch is. There is a big difference between a technique and glitches.
Manipulation of in game devices that causes a direct flaw to the physics of a map, such as super bouncing or sliding up a hill, is cheating. There are certain instances where this doesn’t cause any advantage to the user and those are fine. But if the manipulation causes you to perform outside the intended and defined parameters of the game it is wrong. If the glitch makes you run faster, jump higher, or shields you from incoming fire it shouldn’t be used.
Manipulation of a tacticall situation, such as mass firing or vehicle/weapon control, isn’t changing the dynamics of the programming of the game. It is just providing you with an advantage that is part of the intended programming.
I play CoD: WaW more than Halo now these days. While the overall multiplayer experience is much faster-paced, there are a number of glitches that Treyarch is not fixing. I will admit that I glitched under the map ONCE, just to see what it was like. I will never do it again.
I cannot stand glitchers. One kid that was on my friends list glitched his way to a less-than-stellar 1.01 KDR, and bragged forever. He also acquired a flamethrower at lever 20-something, using a well-known glitch.
If it wasn’t explicitly intended to be in the game, then it isn’t fair.
I would agree glitching isn’t cheating. Atleast it isn’t usually. And that it should be kept to be hated on the lesser degree of unsportsmanship.
As far as Last Resort goes, I do actually believe that Bungie intended people to get up top of the sea wall. The fact that you don’t have to crouch, turn around three times, fire your BR, and then jump to “glitch” up to that spot makes believe that you can get up there if you want. I also noticed that it is fairly easy to get up there, but you are terribly open to being fired upon while doing so.
No idiot the sea wall is not a glitch, there are 3 ways to get up there…do you think they put that back archway like that on accident?
gotta side with crazed here, yes it CAN make the game more enjoyable for you, but when you have to decrease the enjoyment of others in order to have fun, you’re playing the game wrong. There are no problems at all in doing this in single-player or customs, but in matchmaking, when people who you’re playing against can’t physically smack you for glitching, you’re just being a loser.
People don’t have fun when they lose a game anyway. We glitch, we’re losers. Call us that if it makes you feel better for losing because you can’t do the glitch yourself.
No, we lose because we can actually get stuff accomplished without degrading ourselves to playing the game in a way it was never meant to. You are in NO way skilled if you feel the need to glitch a game just to win. If you really can’t do much without them, don’t even go online with the game until that changes, and let everyone else have fun playing the game the right way
killtastic – If you play Halo 3, you’re going to eventually get banned from it. That usually what makes us feel better. ;)
No he won’t bungie will NOT ban people for glitching…why do you think NOBODY EVER was banned in halo 2 for super bouncing?
killtastic, you have disgraced 671.
There is a fine line between “glitching” and using game mechanics in a a lot of different ways. Even though I can’t even seem to pull it off myself, getting to locations on the map that others cant seem to get to I believe is ok, as long as you CAN be hit by enemy fire.
There have been a number of games that I have played where people would use the super jumps, or whatever to get to these locations. When I see that happening, I make it my personal goal to get them out of there. Thus sparking a new challenge in the game, and that I will always welcome.
Now actual “glitches”, like BXR, are cheap and just exploiting a bug in the game. This was not designed into the game like the physical presence of the buildings and geography were. With the physical presence stuff, they may not have INTENDED for us to get there, but they sure put the correct stuff there for us to be able to stand on it in the first place, so why not. But with BXR, they had not intention of us using it to get an advantage over the rest of the players.
Using the bxr is not gaining an advantage over everyone. Anyone can learn this simple glitch. Complaining about it being used is just being lazy.
The way you win multiplayer games, such as halo, is by being better than the other team. This means knowing more about the game and being able to use everything at your immediate disposal to win. You can call “glitching” cheating, but you can use it too. “Glitching” is not manipulating the game to hurt others, but simply using the available components of a game to win.
If you lose, and your opponent isn’t hacking or modding, it is because you weren’t as good as them. Get over it. Either practice, or just don’t take losing so hard.
Actually, BxR was proved to be cheating and not just glitching, because only people with NTSC copies of Halo 2 could do it. It doesn’t work on PAL for whatever reason. This can be verified in a post on the Halo 2 forums by Achronos ( http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8557363&postRepeater1-p=2 )
I used to get all upset over “loosing” to players like yourself that will use any means to win. Yes I could and did learn ALL the glitches and cheats after a while just so I could level the playing field. However, just one itsy-bitsy thing gets lost in the process of using glitches, cheats whatever… something all of your kind is unfamiliar with: (have the rest of you guessed it… sure you have) Fair play and integrity!! You may rank up to a 5 star general in a matter of weeks and I will be ONLY a field major but guess what: people (non glitching decent people) like to play with me and want to play with me. The only thing perhaps I find unfair is that if you leave a game filled with your kind you loose exp points, but than again your kind would abuse that too if Bungie took that out of the game, because even you find yourself playing against people better than you sometime when you get all worked up and call them cheaters…yeah I met your kind on an occasion or two… CHEAT away that’s all you are good if you have to use the glitches and cheats you have no REAL skill that is the only way you can win… pardon me you don’t win actually, you make me loose and there is a BIG BIG difference. So in fact I never “loose” when I play against your kind. Peace Out glitchers!
I agree, but its “lose not “loose” ; )
I partially agree with you. Getting to where you may shoot and not be shot is cheating. Otherwise, go on ahead. Using anything in-game aside from not being able to get shot (not seen that in Halo too often) is perfectly fine in my opinion. Anything otherwise is only permitted during “social gatherings” with your friends/custom games (this is based around Halo, right?), but even then you’ll get yelled at just the same.
I’m going to play the devil’s advocate here: What’s so wrong with using the game the way it was created? I.E., if that stuff is in there, why not use it? If the game designers didn’t want it to be possible, surely they will have it fixed or they really don’t care about it.
It’s thinking outside the box, the developers give you a set region and gameplay, but they also allow this stuff to be in there. If I can throw the oddball into the wall, it’s not my fault that the other players couldn’t stop me. If I can outsmart my opponent, shouldn’t I deserve the win anyways? Isn’t this a game about war time?
“All’s fair in Love and War”, right? I’m going to do whatever I can to win, and if other players don’t like it, they can stick to social matchmaking where no one SHOULD care. (even in my devil’s advocate mode, I still think that people shouldn’t be so aggressive in the social matchmaking games, can’t a person have fun in at least one area of the matchmaking realm?)
Please note: I don’t really feel this why, I just feel like the conversation is one sided, from here on out, I will be debating the “glitcher’s” side.
If the game designers didn’t want it to be possible, surely they will have it fixed or they really don’t care about it.
I disagree with that statement. Sometimes certain glitches cannot be fixed without affecting other aspects of the game, thus deeming them unfixable. Not because they don’t care but because fixing it causes too many other problems to justify the change in code. Let’s take button combo-ing for instance. Bungie came out and said they considered that cheating, that it wasn’t meant to be part of the game. Considering it’s an obvious glitch and the developer specifically said it was cheating and the appropriate feedback should be left on the individuals utilizing that programming flaw, is it still ok then?
Bungie didn’t design BXR and BXB. They were bugs that were not caught before release. A lot of these other bugs were not intentionally put in there by developers, and most devs patch games when people find a way to exploit them in a way the dev did not intend or forsee them doing.
isn’t geomerging and intersecting objects and possibly even floating objects a glitch? shouldn’t it be wrong to have maps with these “glitches used in them? it is an unintended bug just like bungie and ToS say and yet bungie accepts it because it makes their game seem more versitile however this can make lag and cause games to play worse so isnt intersecting and geomerging bad for the game?
Ps it is almost expected in all user created material because it fixes mistakes made by the developers ie that two objects cant be placed truly touching otherwise and also that they have yet to make a true box they add too much decoration and then a flat surface between 2 objects is impossible
think about your statement for a second. Building a map, using a glitch which does not immediately give you an upper hand over anyone while playing on that map, is not the kind of glitching we’re talking about. Did you know you could change your colour in Halo 2 by standing in different lights?Go into split screen slayer, stand in a oddly lit place, while your partner looks away leave that position. the lighting remains despite where you’ve moved too. :O Major cheating glitch!
..No. Glitching becomes cheating when you directly affect someones Else’s gaming experience. If I could jump on some specific line, do a backflip, count to 7, and eat a cuddle fish then suddenly I can spring upward into the sky, leaving me invulnerable, with a perfect view of every player. At which point I start firing at them with my sniper rifle, would this not be cheating? Or ‘fair’ since everyone has the opportunity?
If you answered ‘fair’ then brb, I’m going to go install my connection disruptor, to ensure I have a specific advantage. But don’t cry you can download it too.
wrong. it is not “war”. it is a game. it is sport. sports have rules and rules must be followed. taking roids in sports is cheating, even though roids is readily available to everyone.
In Halo 2 at higher levels of play BXR and BXB became necessary. In social matches however, I never did it. I guess my take is, if the enemy is using it against you, THEN it is okay to do it yourself, but you should never be the one to start it. That being said, if you just say “I’ll never glitch evar!” you would probably be unable to go much farther than a level 30 in Halo 2. Halo 3 is much better with a lack of glitches, and if you think strategic jumps or something like flag running is a glitch, I think you need to redefine your definition.
i agree crouching while you jump from a man canon to gain 15 more metres is not glitching. The worst is this modded control that ppl are starting to get into now thats cheating
I don’t agree with the do it if it’s done against you philosophy. My standards are my standards, and those aren’t affected by what everybody else chooses to do.
Its only necessary when the unscrupulous use it first. And the only way to beat them was to use that very thing that makes them unscrupulous.
Its just like planting frags near spawns in Gears 2. Its effing cheap, and there’s practically nothing you can do about it (the best spots to frag plant the spawns are unable to be safely defused by those who have spawned). If you hope to win that situation, you practically have to frag plant the spawns yourself.
I’m pretty Sure Epic never intended such a douche baggy tactic, but its doable, and once its deployed, it has to be used by the other team.
I know of a lot of crap to pull in Gears 2, but I don’t touch it because I know its cheap and unintended.
I’m of the opinion that glitching isn’t in a gray area: In multiplayer it clearly falls under the category of unsportsmanlike. Glitching is taking advantage of a defect in the game or map to do something not normally possible. In baseball, a pitcher can scuff a ball to make it do things it normally doesn’t do. But this is unsportsmanlike, which is why it is against the rules.
And why are both these examples unsportsmanlike? Because they are cheating. Cheating is bending or manipulating the rules of a game. Just because you *can* do something doesn’t mean you *should* do something, or that doing so is acceptable. A pitcher *can* sneak a nail file in his pocket to doctor a ball. But if he scuffs the ball, he is cheating. By exploiting a bug or glitch, one is willfully sidestepping the rules. They are pursuing a course of action that will result in something violating the established conditions under which the game is played. Being *able* to do something doesn’t free you from the concept of fair play or sportsmanship. I *can* manipulate my network traffic so your game goes slower or drops out. But that doesn’t make it right; in fact, it’s cheating.
And the argument that “glitches are okay cause everyone can do it” is bunk. In Monopoly, anyone who is the banker can conceivably take money at will from the bank. There is nothing in the construction of the boardgame that prevents you from taking out money whenever you want (there is no machine that dispenses money automatically or clamps down on your hand if you try to nick some while the other players are distracted). But it still is against the rules, and considered cheating, even though anyone *could* do it.
In fact, in the Monopoly example, there is probably nothing in the official rules that says “Don’t steal from the bank” or “Don’t touch another player’s pieces” or “Don’t remove other player’s hotels”. These are part of a global set of rules we’ve established as a community and a society. These are part of fair play and sportsmanship. The game shouldn’t *have* to make these explicit: if you agree to play a game with someone else, you are agreeing to play by a societal concept of fair conduct.
In the end, though, glitching *is* actually something that is covered by the rules, and therefore established as “cheating”. Sure, the game may not stop you from doing something you normally can’t (via a bug, or programming overlook) but the Xbox Live Terms of Service (section 4) clearly states: “In using the Service, you may not: … exploit a bug, or make an unauthorized modification, to any software or data to gain unfair advantage in a game , contest, or promotion.”
Q.E.D.
One word “DITTO”
Damn, this felt shorter when I was writing it. Sorry for the “Wall of Text”.
WoT FTW
No. BORING WoT FTW.
@Shirdel7221 Ah, so you read it!
i agree 100%
but i also think that these people need to get punished for abusing this type of cheating. Mostly because the people that use these cheats then go on to brag about it after they won or all sorts of other unsportsmanlike conduct after the game. On a side note i love beating these cheaters the good old fashioned way. but the dying in one hit or the dying in one hit as soon as i spawn or getting attacked by three rockets and then one minute later geting shot by two lasers on standoff gets old after a while.
” In the end, though, glitching *is* actually something that is covered by the rules, and therefore established as “cheating”. Sure, the game may not stop you from doing something you normally can’t (via a bug, or programming overlook) but the Xbox Live Terms of Service (section 4) clearly states: “In using the Service, you may not: … exploit a bug, or make an unauthorized modification, to any software or data to gain unfair advantage in a game , contest, or promotion.” ”
Notice the ‘unfair’ in ‘unfair advantage’? It means one person or team can do it whilst another can’t. This would most certainly be relating to anything inside of the game. In which case it means that manipulating the connection is counted as cheating even if all sides do it and in addition, provided all players are able to use the same glitch the same amount of times, this means skill is not an issue, superbouncing in Halo 2 took a certain degree of understanding and technique to use and thus even though some players could do it and some couldn’t, it was down to purely who had practiced it and who hadn’t. Meaning there was no unfair advantage and is not against the rules.
In another completely different game called Chromehounds, one team before the match could use a glitch to put an unlimited amount of weapons and armor on their Hound and still keep the same speed despite the heavy weight. Now once they had done this the other team would always be unable to. This was not down to skill but instead who could do it first, as a result it classifies as an unfair advantage and would fall under the TOS.
I played a ton of Chromehounds and am not familiar with that glitch thankfully. I wonder if I ever played against anybody that did that.
I don’t agree with superbouncing in Halo 2. It was a result of a programming bug. It still provided an unfair advantage. It doesn’t matter if you could practice and use skill to do it: a card cheat who hides aces in his sleeves certainly practices so that no one can see him do it–doesn’t make it fair or right. Unfair advantage does not necessarily mean “one team or person can do it while another cannot”. And unfair advantage is something that enables you to be more successful in a situation than rules or normal circumstances would normally allow. To go back to my baseball analogy, if a pitcher doctors the ball, he has an unfair advantage. If pitchers for both teams doctor the ball, they both have unfair advantages, even though both teams are doing it. Cheating is cheating, it doesn’t matter if both teams have access to or the capability to exploit the same weakness.
Thank you for explaining it so well. I agree with you completely. And stand-bying in Halo 2/3 or Gears of War 1/2 IS cheating no matter what.
I’ve heard players say that in Halo 2, they would bridge for host, which is technically considered a form of manipulation, but that was only so they would not enter into a game where someone else had host and COULD cheat. Cheating was quite rampant in Halo 2, and I can understand why they would do this. To some extent, I agree, to another I don’t. Host advantage is quite significant, especially if you have a pretty bad connection, however I still do agree that it would prevent people from shooting a rocket for each SMG bullet in matchmaking. By doing that, you label yourself as a sad, sad human being.
So, how do you define a bug in the game? For instance, what about ledge jumping in Halo 3 that allows you to get to higher spots than normal and do difficult jumps, such as jumping from bottom to top gold on Guardian. Bungie posts links to YouTube videos of players completing these jumps similar to this all the time. Personally, I feel that doing jumps like this are something that requires an extreme amount of skill to complete on a regular basis, and only improve upon the skill and strategy necessary to play Halo 3.
My personal opinion on glitching is simply this. If you can do it in the game it is all fair. Just as it requires skill to consistently four shot someone with the BR it takes significant skill to edge jump. In Halo 2 most everyone can do the BXR, but making it work effectively, accurately, and consistently was an art, just as being accurate with the sniper. When I played I was good at the BXR, but when I played someone better than me they still killed me with the BXR before I could, because they were a better player. Just like anything in nature, the skill levels will vary along a normal distribution, some will be bad, most will be average, and some will be good. I say if its in the game it is fair game, because it is simply human nature to compete and and use any means necessary to level up, and there is nothing anybody can do about it. I would simply like to see Bungie start banning people for edge jumping, because technically it is glitching.
To get technical: “A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended (e.g., producing an incorrect or unexpected result).”
BXR was a bug. It doesn’t matter if you had to be “skillful” to get the most out of it. Bungie has called it a bug and frowned upon its use. It was cheating. In another comment I pointed out that a good cheater at cards has to practice to hide aces up his sleeves. Just because you are good at cheating, doesn’t mean that it is allowed. Also, there’s no mechanism to prevent him from inserting cards in his hand from his sleeve (or boot, or pocket, or whatever). There’s no physical barrier preventing him. So does that mean that sliding outside cards into your hand is something that is “in the game”? No. Nothing is perfect. But we can’t write down every little situation and make a rule about it. As a society, we default to an idea of “fair”.
The argument that “if it’s in the game, it is fair” doesn’t hold much water because that’s just not how life works. It’s tantamount to saying “If I can get away with someone and no one sees me, or I don’t get punished, it’s the right thing to do.” Death is an aspect of life. That doesn’t give me the right to kill you. Ownership of property is a societal concept, but in the “wild” animals take what they want. That doesn’t make it right for me to steal your stuff.
As for the argument that Bungie posts videos to people doing crazy things in Halo as defacto approval for glitching in mulitplayer, that’s a bit of a stretch. Bungie certainly posts links to videos of people doing crazy thing in Halo, but I don’t know that they’ve ever posted a video of someone glitching to get ahead in multiplayer and recommending it as an “expert technique”. Plus Bungie isn’t going to track down every person that may have used a glitch–they don’t have the time or the resources. But it doesn’t mean they endorse it.
but he is changing the mechanics of the ball that would be modding a game
but if a pitcher learned a new pitch and it gave him an advantage wouldent this be fair despit the fact that others may need to observe him to learn how to throw that pitch?just as to learn some glitches you need to observe how others do it?
to use both the pitch and the glitch you must be willing to possibly show others how to do it at the same time so either every one gets a chance to learn or no one can use it
My pitcher analogy isn’t perfect, but again, just because “everyone could possibly do it” doesn’t justify a glitch as a valid or fair technique. In the case of baseball, learning a new pitch is doing something that is within the rules of the game and fair play (assuming that new pitch falls within the established rules for baseball–it has to be thrown overhand, over the plate, not in a high arc, etc). Doctoring the ball is manipulating the game in such a way as to circumvent the normal play. He is scuffing it to make it fly in a way that it normally can’t fly when thrown. Just as a glitcher in Halo might use a strange corner of geometry to bounce up to the top of the map.
In the end, it all comes down the social ideas of “fair play”. This is somewhat vague, and some may argue “What I think is fair may not be what you think is fair” but that’s true for most societal norms–in the end, there is a general consensus of what is fair (for instance, when you play a board game you generally don’t mess with other player’s pieces or, say, lean over and punch them in the arm when it’s their turn).
I understand the one side of the arguement saying that glitching is immoral, and I see the “anyone can do it” mentality, too. Both sides are taking both WAAAAY out of proportion. Sure, using a grenade/crouch/super jump may not have been expected, but it doesn’t make it a sin. Creating lag intentionally or making it so that you cannot get hurt is too far. There is a fine line between glitching and cheating.
i love your analigies(fail at spelling lol!)
they’re really good and i completely agree with you.
Sadly, we’ll always have douchenozzles who will exploit anything just for a win and that extra exp to their total. If people want to exploit games all they want, they should at least apply to be a tester and make some money that way instead of pissing the rest of us off. It’s a glitch, it’s there, big deal. There are so many loopholes in the legal system for me to use to steal your car, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to, am I?
People simply don’t care and will always be too selfish when it comes to any form of online interaction. If only we could patent putting shock collars on those who have gotten low online ratings to keep them from pulling off BS…
I guess I would be the sinner of all sinners to you guys. Not only did i glitch a shitload in matchmaking, I also modded. LoL.
I’m sure you have good EXP and a poor moral compass.
The sad part is, he’s not the only one to admit to modding…I’ve had one jerk admit to me that he was modding in an Xbox Live message..and he’s probably still around with most others I’ve unfortunately had to face who not only can’t do ANYTHING without glitching (funny..when hes hiding hes good..when he’s trying to do something that requires skill, a 5 year old could wreck him), but they also talk crap through in-game voice chat and messages, using almost every swear imaginable
WHAT’S+HIS+GT?!?!
I’m pretty much against it thru and thru. I think it definitely gives an unfair advantage to those who use it. If something was not intentionally included in a game then more props to the people that find them but they should not be exploited in a manner that detracts from the intended play of the game. Super jumping to extreme heights to gain that exclusive sniper position is unfair, who cares if everyone can do it. I agree totally with Kato. I “can” skim money off of a bake sale at the school I work at, but I would NEVER do something like that because it’s morally wrong. Granted, I’ve been known to super jump and or BXB but thats ONLY in Custom Matches with friends that I know would BXB and BXR the hell out of me regardless of if I’m doing it or not. In Custom games with friends, do what you do, but when you come into the world of Matchmaking where there are other people who are following the rules it should be left alone.
out of all the responses and opinions here,
Who would agree that flug-running is cheating?
I presume many people would say no, because anyone can do it? we go straight back to Kato’s point of view that just because we can doesnt mean we should.
I take great pride in capturing a flag without running it, does this mean I am of a higher skill than other players? because I can capture the flag without resorting to glitching?
YUP!
My opinion is go ahead and flag run, it makes it easier for me to find you and gun you down. ;)
I just hate hearing “Flag Taken…Flag Dropped…Flag Taken…Flag Dropped…Flag Taken…Flag Dropped…Flag Taken…Flag Dropped…Flag Taken…Flag Dropped…Flag Taken…Flag Dropped…”
I just mute my headphones when people do that.
I don’t know that “Flag running” is really cheating, but I consider it a bit of poor sportsmanship. I would chalk it up with spawn camping and teabagging. I agree with mendicantbias00… I can’t stand hearing the Flag Dropped/Taken over and over. That is enough to illustrate that it is poor sportsmanship–you have to make everyone endure that noise over and over.
I once campe with the flag on matchmaking and dropped it and picked it up. Everyone in the game qut and I won.
I’ll have to go with what most of the people have written here; If I’m playing low-level matchmaking and see that I melt everyone’s faces of by doing a brx or doubleshot I’d stop doing it (if I were in a good mood and didn’t intentionally play that to melt peoples faces >_<), but in MM games these days most people use it against me so… yea, I give it right back to them.
And for custom games… I don’t know, it might just be me and my friends, but for us, glitching was the thing that made Halo 2 such an insane online game. It was like, first you’d master the stuff Bungie wanted you to know, then there was this “hard-mode”. To pull of an insane bxr on someone and killing them before realizing it yourself… or being almost killed just to save yourself with that perfectly placed doubleshot which made your friend scream like a little girl…
So, yeah, in my opinion, most glitches are something that makes the game bigger, but they should be used with moral. ;D
I couldn’t BXR or quad shot in Halo 2, and everybody else could.
:’(
I think that glitching should be used to or as long as the fun of the game is maintained. Say your in a game in which you are out skilled and out numbered. I would say that the underdogs have the right to glitch so that they have a chance against the other team. It also keeps the game interesting.
Now if you’re in a situation in which the two sides are evenly matched, it would be under handed of the side to use it because they obviously just want to get their rank up.
As a counterpoint: Just because you are an underdog, doesn’t entitle you to “break the rules”. Football players aren’t allowed to commit pass interference if their team is losing or facing the national championship team. Fair is fair. Besides, a win isn’t worth much if you have to bend the rules or cheat to get it. If you found yourself on the team that was better, would you think it was fair that the other team was allowed to use map exploits?
I’d say I’m game for glitching. siper bounces, BXR, double (or more) shots…any and all of that falls under glitches. Look at pro’s, they don’t super bounce but they sure as hell double shot and BXR more thena nyone I’ve ever faced in a mathmaking map. And honestly, if you’re against members who glitch…its not like its difficult so its really easy to keep the game the same, just glitch back.
Now by “pros” do you mean REAL professional players, or people who call themselves Pro in their profile but really suck when they aren’t glitching?
“Two wrongs don’t make a right” as they say.
what a bunch of women! yes i’ve glitched to win and yes people have glitched to win against me. just take a man pill and quit crying about it.
LOL, cant you beat people in a fair game then. What a wimp.
this is exactly the reason why our online experiences will always have off games
And next in our exhibit you will see the Sexist Glitcher. These fiesty buggers are known to hack for their win, and can seen running amok in Xbox Live, their natural habitat.
Sexist much?
tho i could only do like 2 super jumps and the bxb and bxr im not ashamed of doing it. but the time i learned of these cheat i was on the tail end of halo 2 reign. halo3 was coming out in september so i got everyone online you used those glitches and more. for me tho, when someone beat me at a BxR i would either blame my connection (which blew donkey balls back then) or i would see it as a challenege to get better. that being said things like Juggernaut in COD 4/WaW things the designers put in the game on purpose i dont believe in. to win you must have a keen eye, a quick finger, and the upper hand. Its the dream of gamers world-wide that the upper hand part is fufilled by wits and tactics, but so many times does it fall into despair as the upper hand is a super bounce, or an invisble wall nazi zombies cant pass through, or being able to roll then fire your shotgun, or flying. GoW2 did the greatest thing ever, their most recent auto update fixed another exploitable animation glitch that people were abusing in online. granted they had to rewrite some coding to fix this they still heard the cries of their fans and fixed it. all in all im in the blackish grey area, the bxr wasnt cheating, however (IMO) using juggernaut is. because that fucks up the playing field. juggernaut keeps me from that beautiful quick scope across map for the win, instead i have to shoot you 3 times with a sniper for you to die, but the BxR was only helpful up close and by god ive mlg montages where people do it.
I dont understand how you can say something like BXR is not cheating but Juggernaut is. BXR is in the game completely on accident and is a glitch. Juggernaut was put in the game ON PURPOSE by the developers. I seriously doubt some really shitty programmer ACCIDENTALLY added Juggernaut and they didn’t notice that it was there in playtests.
Don’t get me wrong. Juggernaut is annoying. But so is Martyrdom. And Last Stand. If the developers put it in the game ON PURPOSE, then it is legit.
Araknoros – In regards to Juggernaut in COD, I have to disagree. I do not like Juggernaut, but I do not think it is cheating. I also do not like Martyrdom, but I do not think it is cheating. They may be bad decisions to implement into the game, but they are valid choices that people can use and it is how the game was intended to be played since they were put in the game. Those options are readily available to anyone in the game (assuming you have gotten to a certain level).
Using a modded controller or game – Cheating.
Using an exploit/glitch that gives you an extreme advantage (ie – getting under the map) – Cheating
Team Killing – Unsportsmanlike conduct (although i hate that people will team kill just to not get a “loss” … they should get punished for that)
Everybody uber complains about Juggernaut in CoD, but it is balanced. Most people use Stopping Power, so its usually SP vs SP, so its balanced. Thing is, Stopping Power and Juggernaut cancel each other, so its a balanced fight again, as if it were 2 UAV Jammers fighting each other. Juggernaut vs Juggernaut is balanced, but it takes one more bullet than normal. When its something different, like UAV Jammer vs Juggernaut, then you really can’t complain. Your class is designed to be sneaky and get ninja kills, and his juggernaut is designed to win a straight fight. If you get into a straight fight with a Juggernaut, is not that he’s cheating, its that you failed at doing what your class has been designed to do.
Usually the only time I cant beat Juggernauts (SP user here) is when its a little laggy. But I would have lost in that situation anyway, so its not because of Juggernaut.
Also, most snipers kill in one body shot anyway. If you find lots of Juggernaut opponents (which is a 2 body shot sniper kill. If you need more than that, then either your aim or connection to host sucks), you need to put stopping power on your sniper to even it out again. Again, its not cheating. Its an intended part of the game. If the entire team is using Juggernaut, its highly likely they working as an actual team, so you’d probably end up losing no matter what red perk they’re using.
Juggernaut can’t be considered cheating because it’s an option available to the player! If you use juggernaut, you’re not a cheater.
HOWEVER, combinations of the more annoying perks for a UAV and occassional SP user such as myself will not prevent me from getting angry at you.
If you’re a good player, please turn off martyrdom. We all know you hate getting killed by martyrdom just as much as we do, and with CoD modern warfare 2 on the horizon, your kill/death will only be relevant in cod4 for so long, and you can survive the slight decrease you’ll see as a consequence of turning off martyrdom
And to anybody who uses juggernaut and last stand, I hate you! but I can’t stop you. Juggernaut snipers, I hate you even more! But again, it’s a built-in attribute of the game. If it really bothered me soooooo much, I could switch over to hardcore where SP and Jug are almost obsolete
That’s a load of crap. Stopping Power balances out Juggernaut, and even without SP, it’s still a two shot kill with a sniper. You make it sound like the people who glitch are the people who are being fair, and the Juggernaut users are the cheaters.
Barret 50cal. wiht SP will pwn any juggernaut.
“Juggernaut users are the cheaters.”
What???? He was arguing in favor of juggernaut…it was pretty easy to see…I think you need to check your eyes, dude…
50 cal sucks it is so inaccurate and has too much kick m40 or r700 m40 most accurate 2nd strongest r700 2nd most accurate, strongest (tied w/ 50cal)
screw jugg and last stand and maryterdom kill me with your normal life
No glitching in Matchmaking.
Simple.
You can glitch and mess around when you’re playing with your friends in custom games, but NEVER in MM.
Is ‘dribbling’ the ball in grifball a cheat? You go slightly slower (Giving YOU a handicap) the marker still flashes to show where the bomb is, and you can’t attack while doing it! BUT it exploits animation making you look like your dribbling the ‘ball’. Is THAT cheating? How about flag tossing? Picking it up and throwing it ahead of you in a continuous motion to keep the flag moving faster. Sure you go faster but your opponent knows EXACTLY where you are!
The way I see it is when people do things that destroy the game: ex going in visible without a powerup of some sort, making yourself invincible, running at enormous speeds, flying tanks. And even all THAT is okay as long as everyone else is okay with it.
Saying, oh no manipulating what the creators of the game GAVE you, is the equivalent of saying here’s some play-doh, but DON’T build anything out of it! Sure, you build a jet out of play-doh and it has gotta stop, but if you twist it around to a more feasible or appealing shape, its perfectly fine.
i gagree
I gagree too.
lol
I just don’t care. Do what you want to do.
Basically I agree with everyone else here. I don’t really have a problem in campaign, custom games or Forge, but it should stay out of Matchmaking.
I’d be interested in seeing how Bungie saw Halo 3 being played. I think that after Halo 2 Bungie would have a taste of what people would do, such as throwing objects through windows, and then if they knew people would do that but didn’t block it, that’s playing the game the way they meant to.
It’s all perspective.
It’s one thing if everyone is lagging due to a bad connection. It’s completely different if one random guy is using “ninja magic” and Dhalsim transporting across the screen every few seconds. If you’re purposely lagging to give yourself an advantage, you’re weak.
Spawn killing, as frustrating as it is, is not cheating. If you get spawn trapped because someone knows the respawn points and because your teammates are causing you to respawn back there, kudos to that guy. Everyone has the capability to spawn trap/be spawn trapped, so it’s not really a competitive advantage and it doesn’t affect the gameplay. Lagging causes an unfair advantage.
how does spawn killing not affect game play that guy can be grenading you before you exist st you are half dead instantly then x# of your friends spawn behind you and he does the same he gets x# of kills and it is not because of your lack of skill it is because the game has because of an unexpected series of events set you up to fail he never even needs to move his targeting reticule
It all depends on what you would define as glitching. I use jumps that normally are not possible but due to the surface of the level design make them possible. If that is considered a glitch then I do not see why we should not be allowed to use them as long as their within the bounds of gameplay. Now if there is one that only a certain player can do or one that removes you from the field of play where no one can see you but you can see them, at that point I think its pretty much unfair unless anyone can do it. Then I do see the problem with it, though yes it is very annoying in Matchmaking and in fact I have only been able to do 1 glitch jump once in MM.
To D Taktics and EmbO I say this…keep telling yourself its ok…cheaters always do. Ghosts in the machine are always unintended and were not placed there by the coders. Just beacause something can be done, doesn’t mean you should do it. My dad told me when I started playing sports as a kid. “It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game.” Personally, mechanics glitching is not a big deal to me as long as I have the ability to get a fair shot a you. However, I would be overjoyed if Bungie could detect a standby versus someone with a crummy connection and ban their IP back to the stoneage. To all my fellow gamers I say this…play hard…play fair. – Love (GTag): Mr Smarty Spots.
Just for public notice Trogdor’s comment wasn’t referring to my own as he posted before
Personally, I’m of the opinion that using glitches and bugs in a game to your advantage is completely and utterly unfair. Sure it may look cool to you that you know these things, but be fair to everyone else who are playing the game honestly. If you happen to find a glitch, don’t be a jerk and use it to your advantage, would you cheat on an exam in school? I don’t think so, and I think the same should apply for playing games online. Play hard, play fair and keep it honest.
It’s in the terms of use that you should not use glitches or exploits. There really is no reason to debate further than that. It’s clearly not aloud.
Exploits count as Modifications to the software or hardware or messing with the connection. Glitches aren’t mentioned in the TOS.
Glitches are exploits based on the way you use them, since you are exploiting a glitch to gain the upper hand.
Look. Glitching is unfortunately in the game. Can’t help it. Until they fix it in a future TU, then deal with it. I understand that it sucks having it done to you. I think no one understands that better than me. However, if you get glitched and feel strongly about it, Karma is a bitch. Get them back. Mess them up more than they did you. When they fix the glitch, then feel bad. But if you are the target, then get even.
This is a good topic, kudos to Bungie.net for linking it!
Bad people manipulating networks, Gears of War2 (until recently), and some of the cheeky flag shenanigans I’ve just read about are all very naughty! I’ve never seen anyone crazycrouch jump over the jumps in valhalla I’m afraid, can’t comment bout that but it’s not how grav jumps are supposed to be used!!!
Spawn killing I’ve had it done to me, I’ve done to others but IF you are playing against a team who CLEARLY havn’t played the game too much, or are just rubbish, GIVE THEM A BREAK! Let them at least move from their base and get some weapons they MIGHT be able use!
My biggest beef playing multi-team with my house mate and you get a classic like crazy king on the pit, and you’ve got johhnytw@face standing over by the towers with his little snipe on “yeah so good at this game, i got an overkill” all game and you check the stat at the end and he’s got NO TIME in the hill!
Why play king of the hill like that????? you have no frendz
Definitely, matchmaking glitching is just stupid. If you really have to glitch to win, then you probably suck in the first place. Customs its fun, since quite often youre messing around with your friends(even then, some games get serious).
I find it funny when people glitch on top of the map and think that they are invincible. It always makes me smile when I get to shoot them down from their pedestal.
H2 triple-wield needlers FTW
What you just said=Exploitation FTW
How so? It’s not as if your holding any more weapons than usual. You sacrifice any other type of weapon for ammunition for the first. You’ve now limited yourself both offensively and defensively. Now if he shot that needler through a small ‘hole’ in a base wall to kill players then that would be exploiting a glitch.
Well it depends entirely on the glitch. Consider that the physics that are used in ‘Goosing’ (launching in the mongoose with the use of a partner driver and brute shot to gain height in order to snipe, laser or use rockets from a high height in order to get kills) is not what was intended by Bungie. However, it is in no way unskillful and has brought another style of play to Halo 3 despite technically being a glitch.
Personally I have no problems with glitching though, if something is in the game that ANYONE can do PROVIDED they have enough skill. Use it.
It’s an unfortunate reality that there is always going to be someone CHEATING… It maddens me the most when I’m in MM and your opponent throws a lag switch and has 20 kills before your network even catches up to the game.
People put a lot of time and effort into researching and manufacturing these methods of manipulation. You’ll only get so far this way though… I’m positive of this. In my eye…. you’re a p*ssy if you need to cheat in matchmaking. Why don’t you actually attempt at actually becoming a skilled player?!?!? You probably cheat at everything else in life TOO don’t you??? Anything to get the upperhand at everyone else’s expense… I pity you.
It is only a matter of time though. You’ll get banhammered eventually.
Cheers.
Yikes. Someone mentioned that crouching out of the man cannon on Valhalla and doing a sort of ‘bounce’ when you land is classed as glitching. I do that most times when I use the man cannon, and, shame on me, I have never thought of it as glitching! :(
But, then again, isn’t this a glitch that everyone does? Discuss.
Iv’e never seen anybody use that before..
I would not have a problem with glitching and cheating,
but why not make it a part of a ranking system, I mean,
I can do some of the glitches but not all of them,
playing against people who cant glitch -> sucks for them,
people who can ->sucks for me,
people who can do exactly the same things as me -> makes cheating/glitching fun for everyone
(btw i think the current ratings system sucks, i’m lvl 17 in teamslayer but in squad only lvl 3 which makes me a stronger against noobs in squad who have played 3 games with a good team, on the other hand i can play some lvl40′s who just begin a new gametipe like the hardcore gametipes and then i really suck!!)
this discussion is like a game, you have pro’s and contra’s.
but we all want to have fun (I do i think this idea could make a difference)
People will justify their glitching in a variety of ways, the most common is “They made it that way so it must be intentional.” Of all the arguments in favor of glitching, this is the dumbest. Most true glitches are ones that it is pretty obvious are not intentional. Passing objects through solid walls is a great example. It makes no sense from a development point of view.
The better argument pro-glitch is that “everyone else is doing it.” While not strictly true, this is at least one that I can address from a logical direction.
In Halo I don’t use any glitches intentionally. I purposefully avoid places where I might learn how to do them. I also happen to think that most of the halo 3 glitches are dubious in their effectiveness so I don’t worry about it too much.
I do use some of the glitches in Left 4 Dead because they absolutely will be used against me every time.
Before the patch I would try like hell to insta kill with the smoker wherever possible and do the shiva thing in the corner on No Mercy 4. There was no choice because the other team was doing it too. In L4D if you are an idiot if you don’t glitch.
But that’s the real danger of glitching, you lose the true spirit of the game. Left 4 Dead is a great example of the worst possible scenario because the glitches are obvious and easily reproduced so everyone does them every time. Rather than moving through the map applying different strategies you end up moving from glitch to glitch, trying to out douchebag your enemies. There is no originality and most people run each map the same way.
The upside is that Valve is crushing the glitches as fast as they can and the game is returning to it’s original intent, and that is very good. But that’s the reason I hate glitching… not because I can’t compete with it (anybody can get online and learn the glitches in order to level the playing field) but because it goes against the spirit of the game, the intent of the developers, and worst of all… takes away the fun. And if it isn’t fun, what the hell is the point?
how about:
“In L4D you are an idiot if you don’t glitch.”
In typing you are an idiot if you don’t proofread. :-)
True, if its not fun, there is no point to playing the game for average gamers. But online, a lot of people turn into douchebag, low life scum, who would love nothing more than to grief other people because they can get away with it. That is the unfortunate consequence of anonymity.
I remember the first time i had seen a superjump on Halo 2, It was ridiculously nerve racking to think that the people were Cheating or Modding, then i come to find out after looking up multiple videos back in the day on youtube how to do most of it, so i practiced and succeeded as well, The argument between weather “glitching” is cheating Is not arguable by any means, The fact remains that “if” It is available to All people, take the time out of the day to go find out how to do it, Secondly, if you see people do it, then work around it, focus your team on that one person, and youll know where to look each time it is done, live and learn, It will make you more skilled as a player in figuring out how to work around someone who “glitches” the game, because most likely, if they can do it, you can do it as well, But i do not encourage modding unless it is Just for fun, Remember, whats fun for you “modding” on Multiplayer/Social Playlists, Kills it for everyone else.
In MM, play the game cleanly. Anything requiring outside knowledge from a website and/or video is illegal and poor sportsmanship. Such as super jumping BxR, and whatever else.
Glitching, in my honest opinion, is morally right as long as it is easy to use by newer players and older players alike, and does not negatively affect anyone’s experience. For example, if everyone matched together in one particular match-up at one time knows a button combo to attack faster, and if they all want to do it, let them (they’re enhancing their experience at the cost of no one’s). However, if there’s one player in a match-up who uses glitches to run faster, attack harder, and be stronger, they should not use their glitches (they are enhancing their experience at the cost of the other player’s).
Glitching can make bad games entertaining or make fun games torture.
Well obviously according to the people in charge (ie Bungie and XBL/MS) the use of anything that can be construed as “glitches” is considered cheating. I cannot believe that amount of time I wasted on B.net trying to convince people that regardless of what their opinion of it was, if they were using any of that in MM, it was considered cheating.
One of the biggest problems I have/had with MLG is their all-out approval of animation glitches. I thought it was humorous that they would allow animation glitches but wouldn’t allow for physics glitches. Their reason for why not? “Because one deepens the game while the other does not”. Wow, what a completely subjective opinion and complete crap for a reason.
What really was so bad about both set of glitches was that they both destroyed parts of the game. Animation glitches destroyed weapons balance and physic glitches destroyed map balance. However trying to convey that train of thought to anyone on B.net is next to impossible.
I’m very happy that those things are (for the majority) a thing of the past.
~B.B.
What??? You mean there are cheaters playing this game? OMG. Those highly skilled and talented people that raced to level 50 while the rest of us were holding at 25 to 30, didn’t earn that level legitimately??? (My apologies to the truly skilled players that did earn that level 50 through hard work and practice). I must rush home and just smash my Xbox 360, since I refuse to believe that anybody would actually cheat to win. I am so disillusioned.
Disillusioned that we are even having this conversation. “Xbox Live Terms of Service (section 4) clearly states: “In using the Service, you may not: … exploit a bug, or make an unauthorized modification, to any software or data to gain unfair advantage in a game , contest, or promotion.” (thank you Kato).
If you have to cheat to win, boy will you be dissappointed with the rest of your life! I hope those few seconds after a win where you can preen and smack talk are satisfaction enough to get you through to your next oppurtinity to feel like a winner.
WARNING: Crappy English
You don’t hear anyone complain about the bxb and the bxr in halo 2. And that was one of the biggest glitches of halo 2 together with superbouncing. And because of these ‘glitches’, the better, more commited players were seperated from the less participated players in the halo community. And wasnt that why the whole trueskill system was used in halo??? To get a good match once you go into matchmaking. So you won’t have to play against the so called n00bs. Let’s take a look at MLG. Everyone who has brought some time on MLG knows that you can have advantage by dropping the flag over and over. By this, you have advantage. The low ranked players dont know this (yet). So they will have a fair game, while the top players will also have a decent match because they can use that ‘glitch’ (note the ”). It’s all because of one word: Trueskill.
You cant expect everyone to behave him/herself in a game like halo 2/3. Once somebody gets the chance to get advantage over his/her opponent, he/she will take that chance to win.
And the real glitchers out there knows what it feels like, when you see the entire opposite team looking at you like: WTF are you doing!! And don’t say you haven’t had any of those moments, because anyone has had one.
I don’t want any fight because of this. this thread was made to show different perspectives about this.
Look at the MLG players in halo 2 and Halo 3. they are pretty much allowed to use all the glitches, except for ones like getting out of maps.
In halo 2 if you could consistently quad-shot someone, that meant you were damn good. It was something that was required at the higher levels.
Glitches in a game are something that can usually only be exploited if you are good. This means that good players use it against other good players. People who complain about little things like camping or hiding are typically the people that will complain about glitches. If you don’t like it then quit.
Network manipulation is cheating though. it takes no skill to do, and it can be used to win games even if you are a lot worse than the people that you are playing. I would bridge in Halo 2, but this was only to avoid letting someone get host and stand-by the rest of us. the only time I would standby someone else is if they were modding and would have otherwise had a distinct advantage.
well, i say glitching is fine, but to a point. as long as your opponent has a FAIR chance of killing you it’s fine to use it. in other words, BXB/BXR where not fair, someone who didn’t know how to use them didn’t stand a fair chance in a close quarters fight. but super-jumps where fine as long as your opponent had a clear shot at you, or you where close enough to get hit by grenades. (basically super-jumping is a deathtrap if someone on the other team looks up, following these rules)
i still use some glitches in halo3, i’ll use banshees/choppers/ghosts as transports, i’ll hit mancannons at angles that launch me in different directions or further. i feel, as long as it doesn’t hurt your opponent’s chances of winning, you can use it.
or if you get stuck in one of those zombies games where it’s completely imposable for the zombies to get the humans, it’s fine to smack a few of them through the wall/floor for playing such a stupid map/gametype :)
most of the glitches i know on halo 2 really dont put u at any kind of advantage whatsoever other than the double, triple, and quad shots that i dont know how to do, but superjumps put u at more of a disadvantage than an advantage. the rapid fire controller on the other hand should never be used it is cheap. the only reason i fell i need to glitch is because its only fair if there doing it right?
I think in matchmaking its not ok to use glitches. Even if everybody knows how to use them(which accoording to some levels the playing field cause everybody can cheat). Glitches where never supposed to be there plus you are ruining everybody’s match because you make the game take a whole different turn. I myself have played a lot an won a lot without a single glitch. I do think however that glitching in forge and costum games with friends is not a problem if everybody agrees. Sometimes glitches can be fun with friends but not online with other people.
Anybody who intentionally manipulates the connection of a MM game is a total douche, I don’t see any argument in that. The worst I’ve encountered is in fact not in halo but in CoD4. I’ve played at least a dozen sabotage games where my team armed the bomb and with 1-2 seconds left the host ends the game. Could it be that the player just assumed a loss and left the game early? I guess, but you’re only saving yourself a couple seconds if that by quitting early and going to a different lobby. But when I’m facing an entire team with the same clan name and it still happens? Well, those guys are obviously jackasses taking advantage of knowing they have the host on their team.
I’m not a super-duper 1337 halo player, and since I’ve only played halo 3 for live and not halo 2, I haven’t encountered as much super jumping or any other controller-glitching, thankfully. Sounds like a super-dick move. Bungie provides us with a game that goes above and beyond the call for balanced gameplay, and unfortunately anybody who hopes to play competitively still has to run into this same proliferated cheating bullshit where you retaliate or you perish.
I think glitching is perfectly acceptable practice, just as screenwatching is on local games. The option is available to all players, and is therefore perfectly legitimate for use. The case where glitches might not be acceptable would be the sort that are not available to all players, such as exploiting lag or host privelidges (although that’s not always easily discernable).
Take for instance something common, like jumping. If you personally, were to define your own gaming experience as being a “purist” and were to always refrain from jumping — depsite the fact that it is a clearly available option for all players — my use of jumping is not unethical. But also if I have a particular prowess with the Needler that you don’t, that doesn’t mean I can’t use the Needler. Most glitching (such as the super bounce in Halo 2) is perfectly acceptable, just as jumping from one pillar to another in attempt to evade fire, whether or not your opponent was aware you could jump across them or just never though of it before.
Calling into question glitching also strays into the area of “technique” to me — that certain matchmaking techniques (such as aiming above the head with the Battle Rifle, for headshots) might also be questionable, when the tapes are all perfectly reviewable by everyone afterward to see how exactly a feat was accomplished, and then adapting such techniques to one’s own strategy.
remind me not to play splitscreen with you…jk
Yes, you’re going to notice your enemy’s weapons and potentially their location just from peripheral vision on the same TV, but for the sake of having fun, you and the friend (presumably) you’re playing with will make an effort NOT to constantly use that available information.
Jumping to avoid fire, using super-jumps or going to previously unfamiliar locations are far more a sensitive subject than connection manipulation and manipulating the abilities of weapons and controls to get kills faster. I’m actually not convinced that these things belong in the category of cheating with the other two things mentioned
At your last point:
I’m not going to hold regular film sessions like an NFL QB to figure out how and why players were able to get me in halo and adopt those into my arsenal. If I shoot a player directly with a tank or thought I br-ed an opponent more than enough to have his shields down, I’ll go take a look to see how and where I screwed up/got screwed. The more likely scenario is that I’ll go and report somebody who I felt screwed me multiple times in the same game for manipulation or cheating rather than become a pupil of his mysterious ways
here is the way i figure it. i plug my cable into my modem. i plug my modem into my xbox. i plug my xbox into my tv. i sign into xbox live without altering the connection whatsoever. i put in halo 2. i go into matchmaking. i put my controller in my hand. i try as hard as i can to rain destruction down on people by pressing buttons on my standard controller. the pattern in which i press the buttons is irrelevant. pressing bxr is not cheating. pressing bxb isnt cheating. pressing rrxyyrrx is not cheating. i have not manipulated anything whatsoever. i am merely playing the game to the best of my ability to destroy my opponent. i will also go on record and say that it does take skill to pull these button combinations off. however, it is a skill that ANYONE can aquire. just like learning to headshot all the time, it takes practice. i do understand peoples frustration when they havent taken the time to aquire the skill set that i speak of, but that is thier own fault. the bar has been raised because the game has been out for a million years. bxr, quad shotting, etc is not going anywhere. It doesnt matter if you hate it or not. its here to stay. you might as well learn these attack patterns and harness thier power because they are yours for the taking.
p.s. the subject is glitching, not modding or network manipulation of ay kind. all of the above are cheating.
In my opinion some glitching is fine, getting onto roofs of certain buildings in games, bxr, 2 shot, those kind of things are ok.
These give u an advantage over other players but are beatable if you arent inept.
The advantage given is there but its not the be all end all. It may be unsporting but everyone can do these basic glitches and they arent that big a deal, learn to deal with it.
Things like tampering with connection is stupid and is cheating its not just glitching its down right cheating.
Other things that give opponents stupid advantages, e.g flying, shooting through walls, holding invisible objects and going through walls. That stuff is cheating because it gives an unbeatable advantage to the other player and is therefore wrong.
And i swear I hate God Mode! That can go die in a hole!
Cheers
Plum,
Glitching is fair game. Everyone can do it, Bungie didn’t do anything to fix it. Glitching made Halo 2 incredibly fun. It took practice to use the jumps and use the weapon glitches and they came in handy when your playing an already incredibly inbalanced game as it is. Being able to BXR a sword or shotgun whore gives the player more options. It adds more depth to the game and more replay value. There was always something new to learn. If you suck at it then practice it. That’s exactly what I did and it payed off. Plus, try double shooting and speed reloading right after, tell me that’s not hard to do continuously perform. When your able to do it, it is most satisfying, believe me! Halo 3 suffers from this. There is nothing new to the game after you have reached a 50, which I have in multiple playlists (without the use of glitches might I add). The game gets old and stale, something that Halo 2 never did.
If Bungie says it’s cheating (BxR, Superbouncing, etc), even if they can’t fix it, it’s cheating. Therefore it must not be done. And therefore I haven’t against opponents.
In customs I’ve superbounced on H2 when everyone else was doing it for the fun of it, but not in matchmaking. And when the dummy glitch was the newest coolest thing, I definitely had fun with that playing with friends at LANs or in customs. That one was funny, but again, not in matchmaking.
Once again, you’re right on the money. WWBD? (Or say, as it were.)
But if I’m playing a ranked matchmaking game solely for the purpose of being “the best”, then what difference does it make if I use some big jumps and such like that? I’m just doing what I can to use the game better than you.
Why should I be confined because a bunch of people are whining that they can’t do these things? If it was such a problem, then there would be a bigger effort to keep people from doing them, don’t you think? If the developers don’t care, why should we?
You want to play a game for the fun of it and have good sportsmanship? You’re on Xbox Live, there’s hardly ever such a thing as “good sportsmanship”. The vast majority of people online are jerks, why does it matter if I crush them by using the map to my advantage. I’m not legitimately “hacking” or “modding” the game.
Regardless, if everyone can do it, how is it unsportsmanly? You’re not going to get in trouble for super-jumping, it’s not like in sports when you do something illegal. Not only is it harmless, but it’s only to supplement good playing and strategy.
The game has given you set perimeters, these things are perfectly within those perimeters or else we’d be told they were not. Intentional or not, they’re there and the game designers aren’t constantly telling us they wish they weren’t and are working to get rid of them.
So what’s the big deal? Don’t want to play in the big leagues, then don’t do ranked matchmaking. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Otherwise there’s no use complaining about it.
Right so then, let’s play a 1 v 1. No limits right? Halo 3, I’ll be host. Oh and I’m have a bad connection. Oh and my controllers smaller so the distance in pressing my trigger is smaller. I have modded nothing and yet these are distinct advantages. They have nothing to do with skill. And No I don’t play to be the best, I play to have fun. I admit I cheated on my first Halo 3 account. I cheated to get achievements, and what not. In fact I felt so undeserving of the katana and armors I started up a new gamertag. I play legit, and I don’t have a smaller controller or bad connection. i don’t do things to give me an advantage over something that is not related to true gameplay. What if in-game there was some sort of glitch say, standing on an over shield spawn while it spawns and someone is leaving the game causes you to become invincible. Fair game right? Since it’s available to anyone it’s fair right? The level of severity for the glitch is irrelevant. Things that directly affect the gameplay of yourself and others by using methods not intended by the developers is glitching, and even possibly cheating. That fact that your behind a television where there is no consequence doesn’t change that fact. If in a Halo 3 MLG pro game one player discovered a glitch to steal an enemies flag without entering the base, they would be punished for using it. The lack of a rule keeper doesn’t abolish the rule. Anyone can take steroids, anyone can download manipulation programs and anyone can learn advanced control sequences to disable player animations. That doesn’t make any of them legit, nor any of them acceptable in a competitive sport. If anything they should be even more frowned upon in ranked playlists.
And as for flag throwing and I believe someone even went so far as to say grenade jumping, these are not glitches. Hold RB to pick up a flag. Press Y to drop. Continue. At no point have the mechanics of the flag holding changed. I do believe to change this there could be a delay, similar to when using equipment. One cannot be picked up after immediate use for a good 2 seconds. This would level out the flag throwing if it does become a problem but in the end there is no manipulation of anything. It requires nothing unique to be performed. Now, throwing said flag throw a wall is something else entirely. And grenade jumping. Seriously? Halo 3 is filled to the brim with invisible walls and ceilings. Using a well placed grenade to reach a higher platform is in no way glitching. It is actually a well expected part of the game, in fact the technique dates back to Bungie’s earlier ‘Marathon’ games where you would have to do the same with rocket launchers to even reach some platforms which would contain secrets.
And to conclude, some might say that BXR’ing is on the same plain as flag throwing. This is entirely false. Flag throwing involves 3 things. Picking up a flag, walking with it, and dropping it. You risk stealth for speed yes but nothing in the game is manipulated. No animations are skipped, no solid structures are overpassed and nobody is directly affected by it in a negative manner.
I’m anti-glitching when it hurts the experience of others. I feel that purposeful use of glitches is a gamebreaking experience. The two worst things glitchwise that I have seen in Halo 3 are as follows.
1. Using a glitch to be invisible and invulnerable and racking up a ton of kills.
2. Using a glitch to leave the playable areas of a map with the oddball.
I play with a high level of sportsmanship. If I’m in a big team battle game and we are winning by a ton of points I’ll just chill somewhere or drive around on a mongoose. I want everyone to be able to enjoy halo as much as I do.
You know the Vanishing Kids video was fake right? They didn’t actually glitch and both get infinite lasting active camo.
In good old Battlefield 1942, me and my friends always played in a server in which allowed players to use mods. I used things like seeing enemies on your radar (in BF1942, your radar only shows allies). And I pw0ned from players who used wallhack (see enemies through walls) and aimbot (automaticly aims and shoots for you. Boring!). HappyFace!
Looking at someones screen during local is fine…it doesnt make it so u cant shoot someone for a period of time…i would havto say that as long as it doesnt directly effect the out come of the game, then it is all in good fun…but if its something where your repeatly shooting someone to no avail because there glitching, it just makes the game less fun…plus the information on how to do these glitches and so on isnt readily availible to all who play, so it is exactly like cheating…
Plus if someone feels they have mastered these “glitches” they then try and make money from ppl saying they will help them with whatever in exhange for microsoft points and so on… ISNT THAT ILLEGAL BTW?
I have mixed feelings on this. If game company’s didn’t want bugs in their games they should have tested them more thoroughly. It’s not like everyone didn’t have the chance to button glitch their way to victory. On the other hand there are glitches like in Call of Duty WaW where you could get under the map. Way over the top, if you can kill someone the entire game and not get shot a single time it’s cheating.
Just my 2 cents,.
Games are tested hundreds of times by hundreds of people. The amount of bugs fixed may be uncountable for most games as of late. But still, problems will arise, and instead of waiting months to work out ones players may not discover for months or years at the expense of not releasing the game is irrational.
I feel sorry for the guys that had to glitch to keep up with the glitchers, mainly because most of the perspectives I read here that are pro-exploitation demonstrate a loss of conscience about it.
Everyone that posted here, whether they wrote that exploitation was right or wrong, knows the difference between an advanced technique, a cheap technique and a glitch. It helps, of course, when the programmers do a decent job testing their games, but no game is going to be perfect and exploit-free. Justify it all you want, but it ruins the game for honest players and makes you a worse player.
I am reminded of the And-One Mixtape Tour, when the basketball players break the rules to perform amazing stunts and embarrass their unsuspecting opponents. That’s what exploiters are. They are the “Hot Sauce” and “Baby Shaq” to real gamers’ Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Michael Jordan. They’re fakers who draw attention to themselves with cheap tricks that won’t matter with a real referee in a real game. So bring your dumb glitches to competition and find out how bad you suck.
Also, if you see someone using exploits, it’s a TOS violation. The more times they’re reported, the more times they’re banned. Do your community a favor and get rid of these people.
Glitching is often perfectly acceptable. Look up Gunz the Duel on youtube and watch some gameplay videos. It is a third person shooter that was designed to play similarly to Counter Strike. Due to programming oversights players were able to move at incredible speeds and perform actions which were never thought possible by the developers Maiet, however Maiet saw that these programming oversights made the game interesting, created more skill based and challenging gameplay, and actually made the game stand apart from similarly designed games. Maiet embraced the “glitches” and used them to show how Gunz is truly unique. Maiet is actually making a Gunz the Duel 2, in which they are intentionally keeping the glitches in because without the glicthes then the game would lack all of the flavor the original has.
The programming oversights in Gunz is the ability to cancel previous animations after the effect but before the animation ended. BxB and BxR in Halo 2 are the same thing. You cancel the animation for melee with reload and can do it again faster than you should.
It seems idiotic to simply say that anything not intended by the developers is cheating. Do we clearly know what the developers intended in respect to grenade jumps or double jumping off of equipment? They achieve the same effect as jumping on top of another player’s head to get to an unreachable spot, but the developer probably did not intend for equipment to be used like that. So why would that be cheating? Or is it cheating to splatter a pursuer by throwing a gravity lift under a parked vehicle as you run past? I doubt the developers explicitly intended for you to do that, but they certainly intended for people to be creative in how they play. Or what about shooting body panels off a vehicle to get it through a gap it normally would not fit through? Surely, that was not intentional design, but it is in no way cheating.
That being said, the super jumps in Halo 2, hiding needed objects in walls, or finding a location where you are invincible are all obviously problems with programming and should not be used. But if you are just getting creative in how you use things while working within the developer’s framework, I see no problem with it.
But even then, there is a grey area with things like parking a vehicle on top of a flag. Did the developers really intend on allowing solid objects to pass through one another? Or did they intentionally design the flag melee such that a warthog passenger can kill someone hijacking the vehicle? Who knows, but I wouldn’t call either action cheating.
Grenade jumping and getting a vehicle into tighter spots can’t really be considered glitches. That’s their way of throwing some kind of “physics” into the game. The old “rocket-sword” is more to be worried about.
Well being a part of glitchamanjaro, I am a very in favor for using glitches in EVERY GAME I can. I am aware that many people oppose this sort of winning and call it cheating. Well I would like to tell most of you that your wrong. If it is in the Game its meant to be used. Many people in Halo 2 back in 04-06 many people were aware of Standbying, Cirlce Boosting and Modding. Well I can bet that more than 95% of the people that say they hated Modding in games when used against them said “You would have to mod to win, Verse me 1v1 noob.” But when the tables turned and they went in with 3 people and got that modder on there team they said” ALRIGHT!!! Easy Win, Wanna party up with us.”
Therefore bouncing in Halo 2 was a very well known Glitch in Halo 2. But look at Bounce FX and Air Biscuits. They mastered the art of bouncing and made Tutorials and Montages of this great glitch. Many people saw there videos on Youtube and started getting into bouncing and wanted to try-out in order to get into these clans.
Another GREAT glitching clan “Glitchamanjaro” has been around forever and look they even have a glitch montage for Halo 3 which can be found here-http://glitchamanjaro.com/triqzfinal.html
The glitches featured in this video are breathtaking and are so amazing.
They have been glitching in Halo 2, Halo 3, CoD 4, CoD WaW, Toruk, Gears of War,GoW 2, and so many more.
I like to call the groups in Gaming(Halo 3)-
Clean Peeps-People who like to play for prizes and getting really good at the game
Forgers- people who like forge-
Glitchers- people who glitch
Matchmakers- People who just play match making.
Custom Game- people who play zombies…
Montage Kids- Falls into Clean Peeps and Glitchers
Many people like to be KNOWN in video games.
Glitches are one way to do so and making videos of NEW glitches is a way to earn RESPECT.
Montages is a GREAt way to show your skills.
I favor glitching and Clean play but if i want to win ill glitch.
-MiKeY
Youtube.com/MnKGamingnation
What a way to stereotype. If I’ve ever noticed a glitcher on my team, I left. Call me “one with morals”.
Sure, the montages are great, even fun to watch. But in gameplay experience, when other people don’t possess the same skill to glitch, it’s annoying and unfair. I’m not going to waste hours of my life figuring out how to superbounce, simply because I don’t have that kind of time. However, simple playing should improve odds, not the ability to sit there and figure out how to abuse a game.
Isn’t it unfair enough that people like me get matched with those who have over 1000 exp (and actually earned it), or that I’ll never get the Spartan Laser before some other dopey teammate who doesn’t know how to use it? The settings in MM are always tilted in one favour, so why make the situation worse and more annoying for people to play?
Saying that glitching is cheating because it is unintended by the game’s designer’s is absurd. I am pretty sure that Bungie teabagging was an unintentional aspect of Halo, but it is still very possible. Should that be considered a glitch?
That is so incredibly not relevant.
It is relevant. I’m saying that there are widespread practices that are unintended by the designer that are not cheating. Next time scream cheater at the person teabagging you.
We are discussing glitches that grant players an advantage in multiplayer gameplay. I agree your comment about teabagging being relevant is in fact not. Besides, they added physics dynamics to make corpses respond to physical interaction so your point is debatable in that aspect alone.
Glitching. I love it. When someone uses it against me and then is all Ha Ha i beat you. Then we 1v1 and i beat them silly. I don’t Glitch, i don’t “Cheat” I think. i see you running across the room i can have a grenade ready for you comning out the door 1 shot BR your gone. But when you cheat you change the game. Really, if you need to cheat to win, then act like you are legit please buy a bullet and use it on your self. Its a game. I am competitive but i do it with what i have. Reflexes and a brain. Use them, not Glitches.
Glitching in mm in order to win a game is plain cheating but bungie has absolutely nothing against glitching as long as it doesn’t hurt the matchmaking experience. High impact halo was even mentioned in the halo3 credits.
I had loads of fun glitching in stunts games on halopc and as long as you keep glitching separated from mm it’s perfectly acceptable (and fun)
I think it is awful. Plain trashy. I have never glitched, and never will. Play the game. If you’re not good at it, instead of glitching, practice to get better.
I’m sorry to say this but my opinion is that rules that are optional will rarely be followed, if it exists it will be used, if it can be overused/ exploited it will. Such is the human mind and if it will give a practical advantage then it will be used. Instead of cursing that such things will inevitabely happen in your experiences you should learn to counter them or use them yourself. Glitching is not against rules, a company will never infract you or others for glitching but they will remove the glitch if they feel it necessary to do so. It’s completely acceptable to glitch in any situation however other gamers can be sensitive and you will get negative feedback (system and human). Considering the fact that many glitches have become so commonplace that some are no longer considered glitches (i.e. interlocking in Halo 3) and some are used in competitive play. On a final note glitches give you a legitimate advantage over other players without knowledge of the glitch and WILL be used/exploited.
All i have to say is if there is a glitch and you want to use it during matchmaking, make sure everyone is cool with it or know about it already because some people like me hate when someone uses a glitch for there own advantage. Now if your alone in campaign or custom games, then have fun with your glitches!
I feel that exploiting glitches is fine in campaign as long as it’s for fun. In matchmaking you should get instantly banned. I have come across many douchebags with lag switches and other formes of devices that cause unfair lag for the opposing team. I wish Microsoft could devise ways to catch the culprits and stop them faster. But I’m sure that won’t happen any time soon.
Glitching in a place like H3 during matchmaking, if it gives you an advantage, say a place where you can’t be shot at, or a head start to a power weapon, it’s probably cheating. If it wasn’t intended to be done, keep it out of where it counts. Make a custom game if you want to do that kind of stuff.
I agree with CrazedOne1988, the first comment. It is a very gray area though. I always felt that BXR in Halo 2 was unsportsmanlike, but I didn’t have a problem with people throwing the flag.
I think glitching is fine (with some exceptions). Stuff like getting on top of objects and jumping in trees is definitely legit. Also in halo 2, super jumping, double shots, bxr were fine as well, as everyone could learn how to do it. It helped seperate the pro’s from the casual gamer. What i REALLY HATE are people that go into places that make them invulnerable, while they can attack the person back. (I.e. COD:W@W). They should definitely be OK with any glitch that is in customs or private matches, since sometimes they’re fun to do. I personally like to get out of maps and mess around offline, but online i will never do something that takes away the opponent’s ability to kill me/score on me.
I think there is a line between what is fair and not fair. Things like super bouncing and getting out of the range of the map to give an extended advantage is something that isn’t fair. On the other hand, in terms of Halo 2, things like BXR-ing and BXB-ing are fair game. The glitches themselves aren’t ridiculously easy to pull off, unlike super bounces, and such glitches only give an advantage for a brief amount of time.
Well, my View on Glitching are:
Campaign:
Yes, when you want to and friends are fine with doing so, go on its just or Shits & Giggles”.
Matchmaking:
In short, No. In long: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I think I want to keep My head Round, not Flat after being Hit by Bungie’s (Microsoft’s) BAN-HAMMER.
Custom Games:
If it breaks the Games Rules – No.
If the Game Sucks more than a Black Hole – YES!
So thats my Views, overal Behave and only Glitch if no-one cares or if the Game your Playing Sucks.
haha, zero punctuation referance, way to go man.
Also @’Rtas Vadam
You say that in place of glitching you ‘learn to play the game’, if something is in the game, isn’t it part of the game? Another point of view behind glitching is that some glitches are irremovable, just like in Halo 2. So even on a competitive level like MLG, even if the league wanted to remove glitching they wouldn’t be able to. It’s not as though all glitches are cheap and equate to an automatic win either. Many glitches add another level of depth and mastery to the current situations and phenomenon of a game. Learning to play the game at a high level involves mastering those development flaws: I guarantee any professional gamer will agree.
i see alot of people saying glitching in match making is cheating, but glitching in customs isnt. just think about this, if your playing H3, and need just one more game for that rank you’ve always wanted, its a close game at like 49-48, your losing, all throughout the game you can never get a clean head shot with that sniper you just found, and have time to glitch and its fully loaded, and you want that unreachable rank, wouldnt you consider glitching? you know its wrong but you want that win, i mean i know i have morals but when it comes down to that close win that you have to pull off, you get somewhat desperate (and dont say you have never been in this situation, or suppose you tell yourself you wont take rockets in a game, but do so for the easy win in that 49-48 close game)
so pretty much if you allow glitches in customs, whos to say you wouldnt get desperate and resort to desperate measures?
Well, I personally believe it’s the game developers fault for not recognising those glitches, and even if they didn’t originally, they still should have released a patch. In fact, the exploitation of these Glitches actually help the developers.
Take HLG in Halo 3 for example. Many consider it to be dishonest and low, and perhaps to a certain extent it is. But since the launch of Halo 3, many of the hiding spots have been patched up. And also, I relish it when someone uses it against me, as I have found all the major spots on the internet, so I know where they will be. I enjoy it when I play against someone with HLG, because I know I can always win; they will be perpetually attempted to hide.
Well, I’m sure the game developer is deeply sad that they didn’t have infinite amounts of resources, money and time to get QA to fix every possible bug. Those damn evil game developers, how dare they ship with bugs!
Not all bugs can be patched (see BXB/BXR). Is that the developers fault that they can’t risk program stability?
This “Well, it’s the developers fault for leaving it there/not seeing it” belief is BS of the highest order and a huge insult to the programmers and testers. You obviously don’t appreciate the work and effort they put into their products. You work a 60 hour week of crunch and see if you can do your job perfectly.
I’m against glitching in the sense that, there shouldn’t ever be any glitches in the first place.
MP wise, there are rules against using glitches to gain an unfair advantage, plus the majority are just clearly unsporting.
In Single player, I can’t say I’m against glitching. but I’m only for it if its for a specific purpose. Like speedrunning. At least the way HSH does it: To break the game in every way that’ll make completion faster. Bungie should just make a better world that doesn’t have glithes (or bloody invidible barriers for that matter >_<)
I think that glitching is perfectly fine all around. There is no reason that we should not be able to do it if it is available to everyone.
If it is available to everyone, and people still complain, it’s like saying that using the sniper is cheating. It is available to everyone, but some choose to use it and others don’t. IMO, its more of an individual ethics question rather than a “yes” or “no” question.
No this is different. A sniper was intentionally put into the game by the developers for people to use. Glitches are not.
I didn’t even use the n00b combo in halo 2… if you have to exploit the game then you are admitting you suck and need any advantage to win. Jumping on ledges and to quote “Getting on top of Seawall” is not glitching. That is fair play. BxR, super bounce, even getting behind that rock on Vallhala where no one can head shot you and it doesnt register even when you see blood come out is just plain stupid. Play the game for real. And while I’m on the subject… Campers are worse than glitchers because at least they have nuts.
Animation glitches were a staple of higher level play in the first two Halo games. They took skill to execute properly and if you didn’t do them perfectly, you were at a disadvantage. BXR required your ammo clip to be full, so if you wanted to use it you couldn’t be shooting the enemy, and you had to get really close. If you are on the receiving end of a BXR, more often than not it was your own fault. Double shotting was impossible to do consistently for casual gamers, so someone that could do it either had talent and/or put in a lot of time practicing. Quick reloading also took practice, as did BXBing.
If you ever bother to watch the top MLG teams, you’ll notice that they don’t rely on animation glitches to win. Most of their skill is still firmly based on mastering the “intentional” elements of gameplay: aiming, communicating, outsmarting, etc. The animation glitches did in fact “deepen” the gameplay, but to casual gamers who never even mastered the core skills, these glitches go unappreciated. That’s what people like me, a hardcore gamer, enjoyed about those glitches. They added another element to the game that needed to be mastered, an ever increasing learning curve that hardcore gamers crave.
Superbouncing, however, is cheating. It adds nothing to the learning curve and gives the user advantages that take the game well outside anything that can be considered balanced. Unlike animation glitches, superbouncing basically assured victory. Modding, standbying, and bridging doesn’t even require an explanation to define why they are cheating. At least I hope it doesn’t.
The argument that you shouldn’t use glitches because it makes the game unfair and not fun for the other players is absurd. If someone who had never played Halo before played against someone who plays it every day, the beginner probably wouldn’t have much fun at all and they might start saying how unbalanced and broken the game is, not wanting to admit that they just needed to practice. That’s just it though- the vast majority of anti-button glitchers simply couldn’t do them or they didn’t want to take the time to master them. The ones that could do them and still felt bad about using it probably weren’t playing anyone particularly skilled. I feel a little bad when I thoroughly beat someone even without using glitches. But I shouldn’t hold back on doing things that have I practiced at, like no-scoping for instance, just because I might be making the game less enjoyable. No one likes losing, but if noobs could beat experienced players, there would be nothing to feel proud of because you’re playing a broken game.
And saying you shouldn’t glitch because the game designers didn’t intend for it to be in the game is also ridiculous. What would be the point in playing video games if there was nothing to discover or master? Game designers in fact hope that the people that play their games do things with it that they never thought of. It shows that their games have more depth than they originally thought.
Wall of Text FTL
i dont think this debate is over just halo-1-2-3 games i think its about all gamr COD4 COD WaW they have alot of glitches which i admit (hit me up with your hate mail my GT is ryai458) i use frequently but its there for everyone its not just for select people true only a very people know of it but still…
but my point is i dont think this is a halo only topic lets get some other games in here REPERSENT
If you skim through the comments, there’s some excellent debate over games beyond Halo. Call of Duty, Gears of War, Left 4 Dead, Gunz the Duel, Chromehounds, etc.
Glitching has no place in gaming.
Neither does bad programming. Both the players and the developes are at fault here and though pointles glitches like moving while taunting in Team Fortress 2 are funny, most gliches go into the realm of changing the game beyond what it’s meant to do. On the other hand, somehow producing a radar jamming device that also acts as a jump pad is quite an interesting flaw that should have been crushed during testing, or by the time the second patch comes out.
I am opposed to cheating, which is defined by the creator of the game or the venue it is being played in. As for Halo MP on Xbox Live, the terms of use are clearly spelled out. By using Xbox Live, you are agreeing to those terms. A player who uses these types of glitches is either entering into this agreement with the intention of breaking it, or decides to break it after the fact.
Either way, I think it says a lot about their integrity… and if I can’t trust their integrity I can’t find it in my heart to value their opinion on the subject.
If everyone cheats, is it really cheating? This debate brings up another heated argument over the span of Halo 3 matchmaking: Hidden League Gamers. The debate begins when someone states, “If everyone can do it, then isn’t it fair play?” And again, there are many sides to this argument as well. This relates back to the debate at hand; Whether or not cheating is a “moral” action and whether it should be used during matchmakign or not. My personal opinion is this:
Even though everyone is given an option to do something that “assists” players within the game, it still does follow the overall “purpose” of the game. If you are going to play the game, then play the game the way it was meant to be played, NOT in a form that bends the overall “rules”.
I’m just going to say that, its in the game, if its a serious glitch, like standby’s or other various hardware / programs to give them an advantage like that, then yes, I would consider it cheating, but if you find a glitch in a game, and this glitch is accessible to everyone in the game, then why get mad about it? Just use the glitch yourself, for your own advantage. It’s a mistake, but if Bungie, or other game creators felt it was unfair then they would remove the glitch, or do what they can to stop it. Look at negative XP boosting, they’re banning accounts for that now, because its an unfair advantage. So just get over it, honesty. Games will ALWAYS have glitches, if you can’t get over it, then either, get better, or quit.
It adds more depth to the game, of course it should be acceptable. An example proving it’s acceptable is that in halo 2 BXRing was allowed in MLG events.
This may have already been discussed, as I didn’t read every entry on this page, but I think the MLG players use glitches every game. One in particular comes to mind(other than spawn killing), and that is throwing the flag on CTF. Surely Bungie didn’t have that in mind, otherwise why would they put a marker on it as soon as it leaves your hands? I personally used super jumps in Halo 2, but so did everyone else. I will say that I do not glitch unless someone on the opposite team starts glitching. I only used the noob combo in Halo 2 when the other team did. If the other teams does it first, then it’s fair game
[Please Note, I don't really feel this way, I just think most of you that say glitching is wrong don't really have any good reason. I'm fighting this argument from a pro-glitching standpoint because I'm bored]
If a game code is unfixable, wouldn’t that just give you a further reason to use the glitch? It’s here to stay, so why not use it? There’s nothing immoral about it, everyone can do it, it’s there for anyone that wants to. It’s not cheating, it’s just knowing the game or the level really well.
Most people that use glitches are already good at the game, glitching allows you to be even better. No one that plays the game enough to get up into the high ranks is not going to not know all the different glitches of the game.
Glitches are a nostalgic part of video games. Ever since games have been around, people have been trying to learn how to use the coding to work for them, to see where the framework isn’t all it’s meant to be. You’re playing a game, if it’s in the coding it’s part of that game.
Intentional or not, what makes it so bad? The fact that you don’t know it? Not really a big argument there, it’s not our fault you have a problem playing the game.
I wouldn’t agree that glitches are “nostalgic”. Glitches make the game easier for people who use them. That’s all it comes down to. People want the results without doing the work. It exists in every facet of life.
But then I would disagree that glitching isn’t immoral.
There’s a reason Bungie didn’t leave all the Halo 2 glitches in. Breaking the game FTL.
Thus if the glitches are taken out, then they aren’t there and order is restored.
If the glitches can’t be fixed, then perhaps it is the game maker’s fault for making a sub-par game.
Man cannot be trusted to behave on his own. And I don’t think it’s immoral because it’s just a game on the internet, nothing within the perimeters of the game could really be all the bad (unless the game is about killing babies or something). (I’m saying actually game play-wise, cursing all over the place and trash-taking is still unsportsman-like)
However, I don’t think I can really continue to argue this point much anymore. It’s very obvious that glitching ruins everyone’s fun. It’s a game, games are suppose to be enjoyable. Perhaps Bungie should make a matchmaking thing specifically for douchebags, then if you’re a jerk you go and play there with other jerks and people can enjoy the game for once.
Alas, I doubt such wonders are possible.
My position (which is correct, obviously) is that IF the action in question was unintended, but it does not adversely affect player experience, then it is okay in my book. This means that if you play on a map that uses the budget glitch, that wouldn’t adversely affect your experience. It would make it better. If you exploit a glitch that makes bullets shoot through walls, that adversely affects the experience. If, however, you exploit that glitch in single-player, where the only player is you, then more power to you. If you are playing a game in which you are trying to shoot through walls, with other people, it is still okay, as that does not adversely affect player experience.
–
As such, I am right.
in my personal opinion, I think there are two types of glitches.
1. There are the small miniscule ones where you beat down someone through that glass wall.
the other glitch is the most devastating. these glitches such as in left 4 dead when you can be an infected and block doorways that are needed to beat the level.
I think that the small glitches are ok as most people already know them and use them, but the other glitches, the big game-changing glitches, should not be used and anybody who uses them just is a very cheap player and should be highly disrespected.
I know, right? That’s one of the reasons why I, like, never play Left4Dead randomly anymore.
Why would you write out “Like”? It’s annoying enough when people say it.
It depends on the glitch. The only one that I think is okay in Halo 3 is meleeing through thin walls/floors, like the gold room floor on Guardian. It’s not really that harmful to gameplay, because you can only do it in very limited locations. Plus, it’s really awesome when you do it. However, BXR-ing, Double-Shotting (a la Halo 2), and other real exploits that have give players a large advantage over others in a diverse range of scenarios are not okay.
glitching is not cheating, all it is is someone finding out how to have an advantage over someone else… everyone can do glitches and you can find them anywhere on the internet so its at everyone’s disposal therefore it shouldn’t be considered cheating… now host booting, standbying and doing other things where you can make other people is cheating because not everyone can do that and because you can’t do that on lan… and no one considered bxr cheating even though it was a glitch so why is everyone so mad? anyway glicthing is not cheating just an advantage that anyone can find on the internet, and if you don’t like it then don’t play the game… i have plenty of fun even when i play against people who glitch because i find the game fun so everyone just deal with it
Well, personally i enjoy glitching. ONLY to explore further into the surroundings. if you use it to gain advantage in matchmaking. well… your a loser! HAH! but no seriously, finding a glitch is enjoyable… but please guys its not a beautiful picture of carmen electra… NO EXPLOITATIONS!
If you have to justify the way you play the game, you’re doing something wrong. And you know you’re doing something wrong. That’s pretty much it.
Since halo 2 glitching became just another part of halo. Campain>Matchmaking>glitching. Its just fun exploiting the game. But, in my opinion, so many halo 2 glitches have been discovered that it has corrupted matchmaking. Currently, BxB and BXR are required to play halo 2. I don’t know if halo 3 will end up the same way. Unique jumping is not glitching but superjumping is, and there have already been cases of bouncing glitches.
The only question here should be whether the glitch in question creates a game that is unbalanced or unfair.
The Halo 2 button glitches didn’t do this, everyone could learn them. I see them as fair game.
“Glitching” is a very odd term in my opinion. Most “Glitches” done in the Halo universe have been used to gain an unfair advantage. In that aspect, “Glitching” isn’t cool. But what is okay in my opinion, is “Tricking”. Glitching falls into the category of Tricking, which we at HighImpactHalo have defined to mean anything from Launching Warthogs to Superbouncing.
Trickers are good players. We exploit the flaws in Bungie’s near-flawless games to have some fun. Have you ever Launched a Warthog to the X-Building on Headlong? Or cloned 77 Warthogs on the beaches of Zanzibar? Or cloned yourself 77 times to form a small, stagnant army of Spartans? If you haven’t, you don’t know what you’re missing. When used appropriately, Glitches can be the best part of a game. Remember Rocket-Sword flying in the early days of Halo 2? That was a blast, but because jerks couldn’t stop abusing the fun in MatchMaking, Bungie had to remove it. Glitches are a great thing in moderation.
I’ve had more fun Tricking the Halo series than I’ve had actually “playing” it.
And if you still aren’t sold on the whole “Tricking” thing, stop by HighImpactHalo.org any time and join the fun. We’ll be happy to strap you to a Warthog and launch you into the horizon.
Quad-Shot, BxR, Superjumps. These are the things that made Halo 2 So much better than Halo 3. I’ve read someone stating that it’s available for everyone to do. It sure is so why punish someone for learning all the aspects of the game. even if the developers missed it. I dont know about u guys but i use a wide variety of superbounces not just for vantage points with the sniper but for making killer montages. There nothing like out br’n a kid with a quick QS. After the game kids are like damn man how did u do that di du mod. I say no, your just a newb. Learn the game stop complainin just like u got SH*tteD on, You can use them to ur Advantage and Sh*T on others.
And, a word to the wise, mate, don’t just start Leet-speaking, or abbreviating everything with more than three syllables in it. It just…ruins this entire post, which happens to be awesome, by the way!
So, don’t spoil it.
You are free to have your opinion. I don’t give two cows.
But, seriously, try using the higher brain and grammatical functions. Please. That will be all.
As much as I try to understand the various aspects of this conversation, I fail miserably, so I’ll plow through this with a sense of dignity, and perhaps some general knowledge. Don’t hold your breath, though. To be honest, I consider any type of glitching a pain in the rear. Unfair, I think, is a good summary. While I don’t have the experience or, as I said above, knowledge of what the doobrey you guys are talking about with BXR (I only got LIVE around 9 months ago, so no Halo 2, and I often don’t play much more than Halo 3), I think that anyone who considers this in any way, shape, or form, to be acceptable on Matchmaking, is obviously permanently drunk, had been dropped as a child on the head, or is just plain moronic to begin with. I hate having to do this, because for some damned reason, I get the feeling I’m going to spark flames from the above stereotyped people, and for all those willing to have a rational, sensible debate here, I am sorry. But seriously, people, Glitching is a big no-no, in my books, and even if i could do them, I wouldn’t. I’ve had the fortune to never come across people who can cross Valhalla in a few bounds of the 5up3r l33t skills that is probably a little modded controller they bought for the ickle lights inside doing the work.
(And to McBloggy, the gracious host of this site I should get around to bookmark-I mean view every day, and anyone else who’s right in the head. Once again I’m sorry for the potential ripples this may or may not cause. If it does happen to offend someone, blame it on me. everyone usually does).
Adios.
I would be curious seeing the demographics behind the various opinions. Many of the more close-minded “you just got shit on” posts strike me as a younger crowd that perhaps gets a different satisfaction from winning than an adult who simply games as a hobby and doesn’t acquire self worth from a game. These debates from that aspect are always quite fascinating to me.
And welcome to the land of commenting! You are always welcome here, especially if we can blame things on you. That will come in mighty handy. :)
thats why I try to stick to gaming after “bedtime”
thanks for the welcome. Loving every minute of this new experience.
Well halo 2 glitchings are fun on costum gaming. But not on matchmaking. I mean Superbouncing with friends and doing fun stuff is ok in costum. But on matchmaking its stupid. So called mlg players who think they are the best cause they can glitch a fast quad shot on your face. Well my opinion is in order to be an mlg, you have to fire 4 fair BR shots/bursts and kill the oponent without dying. If you can do that multiple times, (kill w/o glithching) then you can be aside the good players or “mlg”.
Now halo 3 has rarely any glitches. But the things i hate are how i snipe someone on the face and dosnt register. How i throw a plasma at someone and bounces off them, how i throw 2 granades on someone, shoot them once with the BR and mele him and he dosnt die. And how i win 10 games in a row and go up one rank then lose a game by 1 point and go down 2 ranks… its annoying. but thats just me. And a personal opinion is: i believe they should take off motion sensors and shotguns off team snipers.
Glitches, exploits and the like are fun to do with a group of your own friends, or other players who share your interest in them, however in places like matchmaking, it’s not very appropriate.
I leave you with this for thought (especially for those who say, if anyone can do it, its fair play) With the exception of life threatening situations, it is generally frowned upon to hit someone between the legs in a fight, even though it is available, and anyone could do it. I feel the same about things like super-bouning and BxR (yes, BxR was officially declared cheating, because not everyone can do it. Read Achronos’ post on the Bungie forums: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8557363&postRepeater1-p=2)
glitching is AWESOME if i’m doing it…if the other team is doing it, it is cheating and unfair
Alright, if its not a mod, and something that anyone can perform then it should not be classified as “cheating” or “unfair” it simply means that the person exploiting the glitch has honed the skill at doing so, and if you believe that he is making the game unfair then simply learn the glitch your bitching about and use it as well. If it was shipped with the game its perfectly fair, enough said.
glitching is technically part of the game whether you like it or not. There is no way play the game “right” other than to play it as it is glitching included. Lagging on the other hand…
Glitching is an unintended side effect of computer gaming. Its nigh impossible to test every little scenario so developers can get the game they want.
Think about it this way: Are you allowed to move a Pawn like a Queen in Chess? No, you can’t, because the rules say you can’t. When developers debug, they are writing the rules of the game. However, as noted, they can’t debug everything, and glitches will be found. Just because you found a way to stress out the game engine to do an unintended fancy trick doesn’t mean its a part of the rules. I can pick up a chess piece and move it however my hand can move, but that doesn’t mean I’m allowed to or should do so.
I am against glitching in competitive multiplayer.
Everywhere else is okay. I never superbounced in Matchmaking unless the other team did it.
Glitching is good as long as its just for the sake of entertainment. In the competitive world of matchmaking, it’s just not fair to glitch.
thank you man, you make a great point.
glitching is ok in all other aspects exept matchmaking. it should only be allowed in matchmaking if everyone on both teams know how to do it and you can still be killed by the other team
I believe that glitches are just part of the game, and using them to your advantage is perfectly acceptable. Calling it cheating is ridiculous. I think glitches add quite a bit of depth to video games. One reason Halo 2 was so successful is because of button glitches. It added a whole new gameplay component.
thats one reason halo 2 was so frusterating… name a time when you played two games in a row w/o super bouncers, standby, BxR/double shot, or a n00b combo fest… the game looses its appeal when you play it how it should be done and every other match is just garbage
Yeah, in custom games, besides zombies, glitches was like what i did 40% of the time. (In custom NOT matchmaking) But to do it in matchmaking just makes it not fun.
I agree with majority of the people here that said glitching is cheating, because yes, you are manipulating the game and taking advantage of bugs/programming errors and using them to gain the upper hand. While yes, it is readily available to everyone, the problem I have is, is in order to have a then “fair fight” against glitchers, you will then need to research and find out every possible glitch, and then be able to perform them, just to make the game even. Players shouldn’t have to do that.
Since Bungie did not mean to put the glitches into the game (I am assuming so, but I could be wrong, however I doubt it), then exploiting accidents in the programming is considered giving yourself an unfair advantage over anyone who does now know about it. Just because you were fortunate enough (I’m not sure if “fortunate” is the right word) to learn how to do said glitch, doesn’t mean everyone else is as well. You should only use glitches for custom games to have fun, but not to gain an advantage. It’s unsportsmanlike, and is not in the spirit of the game.
It’s the same as finding a loophole in a town competition. Yes, you could exploit the loophole and gain your own advantage, just because you found it. Yes, everyone else can “access” said loophole, but they don’t, because they don’t know about it. It’s also not right because you are giving yourself an unfair advantage over people who don’t know about something at their disposal.
The only time it would be ok, and it’s still kind of iffy, is if you were using the glitch, then told the other team about it so they could use it if they wanted to. Then it’s known to them, and they know that you will have an advantage over them if they don’t use it.
Now you’re going to say “Oh, well what’s the point if they know about it too!?”
The answer is so that way it’s a fair fight. If the other team doesn’t know about a glitch you are using, then it’s not a fair fight, and you are playing the game in an unintended way by manipulating (which is deception, which is cheating) programming errors to gain an upper hand.
Also, as some others have said, if you have to resort to glitching in order to win, then you are simply stating that you are not good enough to win without using aspects of the game never meant to be there, which just makes you look worse (not stat-wise, but people who see you need to glitch to win, you look worse to them). So if you are doing it to make yourself look better (higher rank) then you are doing just the opposite.
Play with honour or don’t play at all….
What you decide from that point on is up to your own moral ethics and beliefs.
In my opinion,
Any glitching that gives you an unfair advantage over the enemy team is unacceptable in matchmaking. If you wish to gain an advantage over your enemy use the map/weapons/and items as they were INTENDED to be used. Not in a way that they can be used/manipulated that is obviously against the original game design.
Glitching is acceptable in custom games/lan games, but only to a certain degree. If you’re all having fun then continue, however if it gets to the point where you are the only one having any fun you stop.
Well…Games have flaws, and bungie does a good job at patching the places that are ridiculously unfair advantages. But if you arent good enough to combat glitching with winning then you arent very good. Most glitches are just getting to another point. Glitches shouldnt be outlawed, they are fair . Just another part of the game. Learn to use them to youre advantage. Its like a sniper rifle, some are good with it, others not, but pretty much everyone knows about them and can kill the person with the sniper eventually.
is this sweeps week?
even though glitches do occur not matter how perfect a game is made, it’s still a cheapshot to use them in online matchmaking. people resorting to glitching to win games are just that much pathetic when they win and it IS unsporting to use such tactics if it’s not how the game is meant to be played.
did bungie intend for the snipe to be used for no-scoping? was that their intent when they created it? it is probably the most overpowered weapon if you know how to use it it is one of 3 weapons that can kill in one hit from any distance the rocket can as well however it is slow and can be shot down then there is the lazer but that has a charge time also if the enemy is too close you risk self kills with those 2 however a sniper can kill in any situation in one shot.
I used to like the super jumps in halo 2 in custom games only. But when I’d see people do it in MM. I knew how to get them taking away all advantage they thought they had…
glitching is okay imo because it is in the game, if i’m playing h3 I’m gonna try to win and doing anything i can to do so…jumping in not-normal places, objective throwing, especially online when host demands are better than those with out it…I’ve seen some crazy shit happen when peeps have host that shouldn’t happen to normal fools…so in cases like this and any other winning is the goal and i’ll do watever it takes to get that win…..great topic by the way hawty…
-Stevie P. aka QUINCYarrow check out by channel http://www.youtube.com/thelastquincy559
i see it as if you glitch and you have an advantage over somebody that didnt do the glitch, its strait up cheating
Here’s my opinion to the already flood of comments. Although almost everything possible has been said, in defense of the developers, it is early impossible to replicate millions of people playing the game and looking for exploits while they are testing. Thinking back to gears 2, I personally forgave the developers (to some extent) because they probably didnt think that meleeing while picking up something would cause you to pick up a sheild with a weapon it wasnt intend to be used with. Anothe thing is that, just because you know of something that gives you an advantage doesnt mean that your oppoent knows it. Things like BXR were in the gray area because a lot of people knew about them. Morally, it isnt wrong if you use glitches if everyone on the playing field knows about them. The problem is that there is no way to know if your opponents know how to use the glitches just as well as you do. If I found an in-game button glitch that allowed my BR to shoot nukes, but told no-one about it, I would be considered cheating. But, if I told everyone I met about this cool new thing I had found, and using it was ok by everyone, then it would be considered just another part of the game. Just because there is a web site or a youtube video showing how to do something, doesnt mean that it is now common knowledge.
if you know how to aim better is that cheating? because i could pratice with the sniper all day long and i would never learn to be as godd as some people. but i know how to wall jump like spider man and come up behind snipers in ways they never expect is that wrong? you know how to snipe better then me is it wrong for me to know how to wall jump better then you?
Glitching should not be allowed in ranked multiplayer matches for the most fair and balanced experience you can have. There should be certain playlists or custom maps where you are able to glitch. This would give the game a huge boost in replay value. In Halo 2 people would spend hours, hours, o ya and more hours finding glitches that could get you out of maps. This made the maps soo much more fun and social friendly as everyone could have a blast exploring. While I dont condone glitching in any game that holds weight, it should be implemented for the enjoyment of people searching for something out of the ordinary.
To me, there is a difference between the uses of glitches. For example, lets take “Slide Jumping” or “Super Jumping.” The unlawful way of using such a ‘trick,’ or ‘glitch,’ is to get into areas not intended by the designers (who did their job right to make balanced maps). A ‘lawful’ way to use them would be for an advantage; such as to get to an area of the map more quickly, or to bypass barriers that one would normally go though to get to the same area. To me, this kind of ‘trick,’ or ‘glitch,’ adds to the skill gap of Halo 3 (using Halo as an example).
In contrast, some glitches have no ‘lawful’ way to use them. I.E. Going out of the map in the Call of Duty series, or, likewise, the popular BxR in Halo 2, and any way possible that gives players a ‘major’ advantage over the opposing players. The gap between a ‘minor’ and ‘major’ advantage is unclear and undefined. Defining such a term may even be impossible.
All in all, good judgment will tell if a glitch is giving to large of an advantage to one team (or player), or if it is ‘lawful.’ Glitches will always be in games, people will always find them. The only question is, are they are being used in the right ways? In single player (much like cheat codes for the older games), glitches can add fun and replay-ability to video games. But, when it comes to a competitive sense, only the common, ‘minor,’ glitches should be allowed to be used.
I feel that glitching in cod 5, under map, or cod 4, on top of building on crossfire, isn’t fair because you don’t know they are there in hardcore mode. I think any body that glitches online should get banned
Remember in Gears of War when everyone started crab walking? I quit playing shortly after that (although I wasn’t very good to begin with lol). Glitching to win just ruins the experience for everyone else. Its not like you can claim to be good when you exploit holes in the game just to get the advantage. Oddball for example. Anyone can look up glitches on the Internet and win by finding hiding spots that take timing and precision to get to. You get the ball early and have plenty of time to get into one of these spots. Then when the enemy tries to get there its easy to screw up their timing by shooting at them because they’re required to rush to get into the spot before they die. Even if the enemy manages to kill you, the lead you have established by that time is usually so great that there really isn’t any point to playing anymore. It didn’t take skill or amazing team coordination to pull off that win, it was just the fact you could go into a place the other team couldn’t get to you.
I don’t mind the occasional use in custom games w/ friends, but when you hit matchmaking it just shouldn’t be done in any fashion. If you can’t win or even play a game without exploiting glitches, you’re very sad and should practice good sportsmanship. Kudos to everyone who refuses to exploit these. May we meet in a friendly game sometime.
I know it’s probably been said before, and I skimmed over it, but I think glitching in any way is extremely cheap, unfair, unsportsmanlike, etc.
The argument that “because it’s there in the first place means they meant for it to be found and used” is complete crap. Does anyone remember the rocket/sniper sword lunge from Halo 2? That was found, exploited, and then finally fixed. That means that glitches *gasp* weren’t intended to be used! However, some of these cannot be fixed without seriously changing around the functions of the game, and so they remain. Although they are still there, I think it’s just downright unfair and un-fun to use them.
It all depends on the mentality of the gamer, though. I like to have fun, and I like to see others have fun. If I want to glitch, I set up custom games to fool around in, but never take it to matchmaking where it actually matters. Playing against others for skill should not include glitching, period. If you used a superjump to get up high and snipe someone. You cheated. If you BxR someone to gain the lead. You cheated. There’s no question about it. Using them gives you an unfair advantage to those who don’t know about it, or those who chose to actually respect people and play fair. If you want to glitch so bad in matchmaking, go make a game where glitching is the main objective.
Rant aside, I know all of this is pointless because this is the internet, respect and honesty are a rarity.
Personally i’m opposed to glitching. Sure it’s fun to when it’s just you and your friends in a custom game match. But in Matchmaking, it’s just rude. I think that you need to at least honor your opponent, even if you didn’t choose to face off with him/her. Glitching is known as in my Vocab as Cheating. I don’t like to cheat, it takes the fun away. Unless everyone knows how to do it. It’s no fun at all. I like to exploit things only if everyone else can exploit it to. Sure it’s cool to be the only one who knows. But if you use it and no one else knows. It makes the game less fun for the ones who are playing against you.
some people will always be able to do more then others that is the glitch in life we are not all equal some have absurd abilities with certain weapons (mostly sniper) others will never be able to equal them at that is it wrong play to your strengths? if i can snipe and no scope well i use the sniper if i cant but i can wall jump from the mancannon to up near top middle on narrows and others cant. i see both of these as the same playing the way you can i think there are very few glitches that are good enough to ruin matchmaking i think that spawn killing is far worse
ok, gitching is bad and good. minor glitches like fusion coil jumps, or any jumping. spawn killing, lagswitches, and haking are all gay. tell me if im wrong but i think i make perfect sense.
Ok, I don’t know if someone has already raised this point, cos I can’t really be bothered reading the whole thread, but doesn’t crouch jumping sort of count as a glitch? If you refuse to use other glitches, likethrowing objectives through walls, does that mean you should also refuse to crouch jump?
Crouch Jumping is not a glitch… that is an absurd statement… Its part of the game… Bungie tells you to do it in there little msgs. during matchmaking… its been around since the dawn of CS… another kid brought up no scoping… even more absurd… that is not a glitch… if thats a glitch then usuing your BR w/o a scope is a glitch… stupid…. BxRing was not intended… its a glitch and it should not be used… its just a bad as when kids would throw nades through walls in CS… unacceptable… everyone knows how the game is supposed to be played… play it that way and there wont be a problem… hey if you need to glitch to win a stupid online game then that says something about you as a person… im a lvl 50… i dont camp… i dont glitch… i play fair and by the rules… also standby is not a glitch… more 12 year olds posting who dont know nething… that is blatant cheating
glitching is part of the game its put in there by mistake but its still part of the game
i agree that glitching should only be attempted if it doesn’t give you MUCH of an advantage (i.e. super jumps). but if and only if its in a custom game or campaign is it a necessary evil. for example, the scarab gun. (though it is technically an easter egg because it was knowingly put there) because you have to exploit the game mechanics by jacking the banshee right when it says “Loading… Done” and the giant soccer ball. i found a glitch to get the ball without the banshee (but you need sputnik skull on) and (as far as i know) Bungie didn’t intentionally put that second path there
i rest my case
(ok I now my spelling isnt great cus Im feeling lazy still it doesnt mean my argument is in any way invalid)
glitching for multiplayer games should not be allowed it was not applied to the game by the developers and they work hard to remove as many bugs as possible now many ppl say that glitches like BXR r in the gray area they suppose its common knowledge well I dont kno many glitches myself and I never look any up so its not so common as they think the only time I use them is for amusement in a custom game or campaign truly skilled players should never think even once about using them
I think there’s a fine line that separates glitches as a means of cheating, and just manipulating the mechanics of the game.
For example, i don’t think flag juggling and ghandi hopping were intended by bungie, but does that make them cheap to do, or does that make you skilled?
If it’s legal in MLG, its fair game in my opinion.
A glitch is an unintended programming error that can have positive or negative consequences. Making a game developer aware of these errors certainly serves a purpose in the sense that future developments of a game or series can account for these mistakes. A programmer can choose to implement a solution or even adapt game play to include new behaviors.
Letting a game developer know about a glitch however should be done in direct communication and not by affecting multiplayer game play. Not everybody exploits glitches and in fact many people make no effort to seek out guides to performing glitches. Exploiting glitches has one consequence in the end and that is decreasing the amount of people who play a game. Games will always have errors. There will always be people corrupt enough to use errors in a system to take advantage of others. There will also always be those who choose to do what is right even when given the option of doing what is wrong. Reporting bugs or exploiting bugs will inevitably result in the same outcome and that is driving game developers to make a better product. It would certainly be nice if some faith would be put in Bungie to develop a great game without those of us who choose to do what is right loosing our enjoyment and entertainment in the meantime. I give high praise to Bungie for creating a game with so few errors and I have great respect for the gamers out there who try to beat me using intellectual acuity and anticipatory strategy. Game on.
Um…I had some further thought on the matter.
Halo 3 online is a constantly evolving game in which the ranking system adapts for players’ ability to win. If the only negative consequence of playing with someone who exploits glitches is not winning than so what?
The other player will rank up. Even if they don’t, then we have the option of avoiding that person for unsporting behaviors. So long as we have that option of avoiding the people we don’t like playing with, we have an option to counter with.
That only affects long term game play and not a single game, but we have options of dealing with that too. Bungie punishes us for quitting games no matter what the reason, so instead of quitting, make the game more difficult for the team that’s exploiting bugs even if it’s your own team. I’m not going to detail the options, but they are numerous for every game type.
Two disclaimers however:
Bungie determines what is a glitch and what was intended not the players of the game
As long as there are serious glitches in a game and people who exploit them to win a game will not be taken seriously and winning or achieving some lofty rank will be meaningless. steroid use in baseball and other sports runs an interesting parallel to gaming especially since there are rules laid out by xbox live that are agreed to beforehand
Wow, Lots of LONG replies. You definitely hit a nerve Angel.
I think I’m on the line with these ‘glitches.’ Things that are obviously not cheats, of corse, they are for lamers. But problem is, more often than not, crappy AI creates a lot of ‘loopholes’ as well. Abusing pathing is only a hair’s difference from kiting but ive been suspended in EQ for it. Standing on a wall and shooting something that can’t climb up… Some people call that cheating, I don’t. Thats just smarts.
I Personaly Think You Kan Do What You want when playing solo, but online its cheating if you suck so bad dat you have to use glitch’s to beat online compation then you should jus playin in a room full of noobs and 8 year olds.
-Bmoney-
I feel that glitching should be left out of matchmaking, because, as said by others, it lowers the game experience and virtually ruins the game for everyone. Not the point of the game. However, glitches like superjumps in Halo 2 are NOT glitches, but more mere easter eggs, as they were specifically programmed into the code of the game, just like how to obtain the IWHBYD skull in Halo 3 is. They’re there just for gamers to have more fun, and further benefit the game. Superjumps don’t really affect matchmaking, and are extremely difficult to pull off anyways.
i think that if it is coded in to the game by bungie and no out side manipulation of the code is needed then it is fair. i mean is grenade jumping wrong? is hitting the squares surrounding a persons head instead of the head its self wrong should you in that instance say “o i need to let them kill me i didnt kill that last one right”?
ill admit to going under the stairs on the pit with my team mate in doubles after getting the lead the key is as long as every one good enough to take advantage of of the code can it is fine. just like some people are better at sniping some will be better at exploiting the minor mistakes the creators of the maps made.
I will never agree with camping atfer gaining the lead as acceptable. The reason weapons respawn is to give the chance at a tactical come-back. If you can gain the lead, then you should be able to gain the necessary points to win without any trouble. I love doubles, and it’s people like you who waste 15 min of my life by hiding in a spot no one knows after getting a 1 point lead.
I am too lazy to read all of those comments, but what I think is, if it’s a funny glitch, and people laugh at it or are like “Cool! How did you do that?!” it’s fine, but if you use some EPIC BS to get to say…Some sniping spot where you can see the whole map and shoot everyone in it, and you exploit the glitches in the game, that makes you a piece of crap who cannot win on skill, but only on some little thing they, or a friend found that they can exploit, an they SHOULD be banned for the gay glitching. That being said, finding a sniping spot where you can see the whole map, but it is not a glitch, it sucks for other people, but it’s fine as long as it was at least intended or thought of as a sniping perch, also, while I hate it, lagging is a lot like glitching, but USUALLY it cannot be helped if you just have a crap connection, but people with lag switches or anything are jerks who should be banned on the spot. Also, say you accidentally get into a “Glitch spot” or accidentally throw some BS grenade and it glitches through the wall, that’s fine as long as you don’t continue to do it. But that’s just how I see things personally, and I REALLY don’t care if you see them differently, so respect my opinion, and if you have a good argument, by all means, dish it out, I probably won’t read any of this, but I just wanted to put in my thoughts
I think that glitching (if it is possible) should be taken out of whatever game it is in. I use almost every *secret spot* I can find, but like in gears of war I dont “crabwalk”. On Halo 3 for example, the grenade bounce to get really high on the Vahalla towers, I’m all for it, my team or theres. Stand-bying, Modding matchmaking, bridging host, special controllers, ect are all (i think)unexceptable and should have a punishment. Cheating=bad, Glitching=should be removed. It is like a left handed pitcher in baseball. They have an advantage at striking people out. You can’t really make him stop pitching with his left hand. Certain glitchs have the same effect on a game and even though i might lose because of it I’m not mad. Glitching in MLG should have it’s limitations, but in the world of matchmaking, if it’s there, and seems fair enough I will use it.
I like the Vahalla jumb…I kind of agree with you
Well, I sometimes cheat or glitch in custom games but only because I find it funny. If it is a ranked game then hell no. Every rank I earn is legit.
I have to say that the only glitches i have ever believed to be acceptable are the ones with absolutly no effect on the game. for example, lowering your rifle on Halo 2 is always fun, But super jumping or firing two lasers orsomething like that is just cheap. On another point, spawn killing and base-raping are not glitches, but they are most definately bad sportsmanship – and that is just as bad as glitching. C’mon, just play a simple, fun and fair game, is it thatmuch to ask? (BTW this laptops keyboard is screwed, so forgive any messed up words – i tried my best)
I think glitching shouldn’t be used in online play, much because by using certain glitches people may gain advantages they’re not supposed to have, it ruins the game balance. However, in some cases of competitive gameplay when everyone knows how to use the glitches it can be justified as long as everyone are aware of glitching being allowed. In normal matchmaking, many people don’t know how to glitch it shouldn’t be used and they should if possible be removed. After all a glitch is a flaw in the game and should be removed.
After reading some of the comments above I find it odd that some define glitching to include lagging and grenade-jumping. A glitch is a flaw in the game that is not supposed to be there. Lagging is not supposed to be there, but it is a result of a bad connection and not some sort of bad game engineering. Grenade-jumping is totally legal in my opinion, it’s only about using the game physics to your advantage. I think it’s okay to use special sniper/hiding spots as long as you get there using only the intended game physics and as long as the position don’t give you an opportunity to see through walls or other glitches
I am not a person that uses glitches to gain an advantage however I ask people to tell me about all the ones they know so that way if someone else uses them in a game I can know where they are and how i can get to them to kill them and keep them from wreaking havoc on my team. I’ve also chastised teammates for using those types of tactics. and one time when put on the other team against them i killed them and then told my team how to set up so they could not do it again. Game designers just like other human beings are not perfect, and neither are game engines or mechanics, but exploiting them to gain advantages over other people is wrong.
I have to say video games (multiplayer) is just like sports. Heck, its even like gambling. If you rig a dice then you are CHEATING. If you use steroids to beat the other guy then you are CHEATING. If you use mad science to grow four extra arms to win a wrestling match then guess what: you are CHEATING. No doubt about it. Can you imagine someone using oil slick in NASCAR?
To all the people claiming “glitching is no different from stealing money or a car,” glitching does not effect you in real life. If I BxR you in Halo 2 you might rage a little bit…if I steal your car and there’s nothing you can do to get it back that’s completely -blaming- your life up. If you can’t see a difference then YOU are a sad person. I can’t do BxR or any of that, I can’t ledge jump and I sure can’t do jumps like S1-S2 or G1-G2 which would technically all be glitches…but as far as I’m concered if they’re all allowed on a professional level such as MLG then let them be used. If you don’t like it…avoid the people doing it and you never have to play with them again, avoiding is there for a reason.
BXR and super bouncing suck. I mean, as a Streetfighter enthusiast I can understand how it is a way to make the game more excting, but it makes sence in a game like that. In Halo it just ruins the simulation by allowing you to do things you were not ever supposed to be able to do.
It ruins the game for people like me who go on with their mates once in a blue moon and want to play Bungie’s game. Sure, even I could learn and practice that stuff, but then I am not playing Halo anymore, I am playing a glitchy hacked piece of crap. I did not pay 6000 yen for that.
I am more annoyed about the controller mods and network skulldugery in 3, as rare as they are in scrubland where I reside (though the odd smurf clan seem to plow through me). Usually when I get beat these days it is because the other team is awesome and there is nothing wrong with that.
The simple answer to all these “gray-area” questions is, if you dont wanna be spawn-killed, dont die, and if you don’t wanna be ball glitched, then you should have gotten the ball first. If you’re being team-BRed then it’s your fault you’re not with your team. C’mon people, i mean seriously? Cheating should be defined as” Modded Controllers, Lag-switches, etc. Modifying a controller or piece of hardware is cheating.
modded controllers and finding secret spots AKA getting inside of walls.. is fairly common place in COD 4, COD WaW i have no problem with people (me included) using secret spots there are a few in the games and if i know them ill use usually just to get a sick sniping spot or to get the drop on passing enemies. But modded controlers are completely different you cant make it on your own (except for a few) you have to buy it off the internet now when someone is in a spot you dont know about its annoying but when a semi automatic fires automatcily thats bull. so my postion is glitches AKA mistakes in coding is alright albeit annoying but accepcible but reconfiguring a controller to gain an advantage is unexceptible.
lets have more games talked about here not just halo (yes i saw other games posted but the majority is halo)
Was posted on http://www.bungie.net so there will probably be a lot of Halo people
Well I think I’m going to be a devil’s advocate here…
I feel that there is a lot of gray area here, and certainly a lot more than some of you are giving to the topic. There is no clear cut answer to whether or not glitching is allowed. Certainly some things are slightly ridiculous, but I’m sure that others are simply Easter eggs that the programmers have put in for the enjoyment of those who can figure them out. Look at crouch jumping and late jumping for example. Are those glitches that shouldn’t be used? Or are the allowable? I know that some people are going to say that these aren’t glitches, but I know people who have flipped the f**k out on me for doing them in matchmaking. An example is foundry. In a team slayer match, the two teams start out in the back and run forwards. Now the only way to make it to the rockets is to 1) go all the way back, get a grav lift and use it, or 2) use a late jump/crouch technique. Now I’ve done this, and in the postgame lobby, people freaked out… There are some things that I feel people, if they’ve taken the time to figure out how to do them, should be permitted to do without being totally blasted for it.
Just my $0.02
Glitching and manipulation, are two different things. Manipulating is simply creative thinking. Such as driving a warthog over a flag, so when an enemy attempts to pick it up, they instaed, get into the warthog. That’s just manipulating the accepted game mechanics, thinking creatively. Getting to the top of a base in a Valhalla using a Banshee is, argueably annoying, but acceptible. But when this involves intentional tampering with contols, it then becomes glitching. But not all glitching is cheating. As long as it doesn’t give you an advantage, it should be perfectly acceptible. If you glitch yourself to put your weapon down, not a problem! But if you glitch yourself to be holding three guns at the same time, then that would be wrong in a competitive atmosphere. As long as it’s fair.
Some argue, that cheating is always fair, because it is always readily available to the public. I strongly disagree. Not the entire public knows how to perform such feats, making it unfair. What makes you justified with a glitch because you discovered an advantage, and someone else has not? Let’s say you join a match of BTB. Suddenly, the enemy team has a flying tank! It wreaks havoc, and is the sole reason your team loses the match. Well, if it’s simply a glitch, what makes it wrong? He knows how to do it, and your team doesn’t, so he wins. See the error in that? That’s alittle extreme, but even if it’s something small, like if you go against a team who has all figured out how to BXR in Halo3. That would be frustrating, yes?
Glitching to win is simply manipulation over an adversary to compensate for your lack of skill. If you glitch to win, you’re simply not very good. “But there are some glitches that take alot of skill to learn!” Yes, this is true. I still don’t know hot to proper ‘Ninja-Flip’ in Gears 1, because it’s damn hard! But that won’t make it accpetible to me when I’m shot from outside of the map. Sure, I’m fine with glitching to win in custom games, or games with just your friends, but not in a social game, and definatly not in ranked. If your gltches are harmless, and doesn’t change intended game mechanics, then it should be fine. Like spy-crabbing in TF2. But crabwalking in Gears is always looked doen upon.
I hate most glitches in multiplayer games, apart from the HaloCE/Halo 2 double melees and Halo 2 doubleshots/quadshots. This is because I like to see a game which takes awesome skills to compete in. Sure, most shooters take a degree of aiming skill, but when anyone on the battlefield also has a street fighter style combo at their disposal, it is like a combination of disciplines which makes for exciting and clutch gameplay. Essentially these skills are available to anyone playing Halo 2 – just like the hardest combos in any fighting game. They can be performed anywhere too, and the advantage still requires that aiming skill. Crabwalking in GoW for example is TOO strong an advantage – it is practically invincibility. You can run around all day in crabwalking mode, fire 2387295734958 shots and eventually kill the other team with little worry of dying. No skill there, just persistance. The glitches that annoy me most are where people have to exploit a terrain/geometry fault in order to win. Wheres the skill in that.. its just moving your character to one point where you know you cant die, or wont be seen.
Whoever said that spawn killing was cheap or bad sportsmanship – it isn’t. Its just applied knowledge, reaping the rewards of a good map setup and succesful early battling. You cant seriously mean that if the entire other team spawns right in front of you that you just.. turn around and let them find their feet again before re-engaging? That would be ridiculous; why would you give the other team even the slightest chance to get back in the game?
this is a quote from a high school senior that writes a column for the local major newspaper. he is writing about a not-to-new phenomenon of the “helicopter” parent. completely different subject but same core argument…
“How sad it must be to spend one’s life going around the rules, cutting corners and trying to find ways to cheat the system. People deny themselves and their children the satisfaction of true success when they break or bend rules to build facades of greatness.”
well the only time I’ve had any experience of it is on halo and in the command and conquer, as a general rule of thumb I hate being on the receiving end of it, it ruins my game and takes the fun out of it.
The C&C games that i haveexperianced it on have allways been in the form of modified game files to make for different units etc and modding is actually somewhat condoned and facilitated by the creators so thats ok.
In halo games it most definitely isn’t, there are few things that annoy me more when playing then someone who mods, more so those who are blatant about it and advertise the fact.
Things like auto aim and for example really wind me up, as do in game problems like super bouncing etc.
However there are some things i let slide and have even used myself, for example sward cancellation, it wouldn’t be the first time that one of those had saved my life or the first time I used it to get to places that I wasn’t meant to on halo 2.
So there are five opinions.
1: Glitching is bad and for no lifers and nubz who should go die.
2: Glitching is okay as long as it is fun for all.
3: Glitching is okay as long as it doesn’t break games.
4: I don’t care about this topic now NETWORK manipulation is bad, screw glitching
5: Glitching is skillful and okay.
My suggestion to the above.
1: Don’t play games with glitches
2: Righto! Now find some people who want to have fun.
3: Then it’s not illegal is it? Just remember that even though you can do whatever you want so can everyone else (And SOME people have bannhammers on their list of whatever I want.)
4:Go find a new topic.
5: Play with other people who are skillful and okay.
Some forgers forge maps based around glitches like the map Saw Extremity, but in general matchmaking glitches should only be used to make the game more interesting, not to glitch flags through walls.
Holy Crap Long Page Much!!!
Anyway, my opinion is that glitching to gain an advantage in matchmaking should not be allowed, and I frown upon it. However, glitching in Customs, single-player, or overall just casual gameplay is fine. Glitching maps is also fine, as you can’t really get certain super awesome maps without geomerging, etc. Some really, stupendously good glitchers take their time out of online gaming to find glitches to fix them, which is astounding.
I like to glitch to fix, but never on matchmaking, because then it evolves to cheating.
As a person who tries not to take playing games too seriously I enjoy the odd glitch or two. It gives a game an even deeper experience when you learn something new about it, and what games always boil down to for me is just a fun way to learn.
When I lose because of a glitch it definitely angers me, sometimes to the point where I just turn it off and go punch a cat or something, but that feeling soon gives way to wanting to learn to use it to my advantage.
Pingback: Top Posts « WordPress.com
i dont care about bxr and bxb and fast reloading and all that but cheating an hitting through solid objects hacking superjumping etc are not cool
As far as button glitches go, if you wanted to see who can hit a sequential amount of buttons in the right order to execute a move, you should be playing a fighting game, not a FPS.
I think that glitching should be allowed simply because any and every has the ability to do it, if there is a way to win you should take it.
The argument that Bungie frowns on BXR is irrelevant. Bungie’s perspective on the issue has no bearing. As a game developer, they produce a product with intent to sell. They have responsibility for the use of that product only so far as to promote its sale. The organization that is responsible for setting standards of use for Halo games is Major League Gaming. Unlike Bungie, their product is not software but entertainment. MLG decides what the ethics of its play are, just as Major League Baseball decides what substances are legal (baseball bat companies do not). As the professional league, MLG embraces a majority of glitches, as they open more avenues of play and therefore by default enhance the skill set and knowledge base necessary to compete. Trick jumps, BXR, spawn killing, etc. are not only sporting; they’re good play.
Hey, as long as the glitch is something that everyone can do, it’s not unfair and shouldn’t be frowned upon. It’s no more then strategy, and nothing else.
There has been a few cases with the Halo 3 match-making system, which everyone is aware of by now. Lag-switching, Bridging Host, etc..
All these I can go with, because I live in AUS, and America generally has best connection over AUS, and there-fore gets host.
What really annoys me though, is when we finally get host, and someone has to turn on a lag-switch or Bridge host.. And afterwards, say they ‘raped us in red-bar lag’.
However Gears 2 is probably worse, I will admit. If you don’t get host, you basically lose >.>
Also: Default Controls: B, LT. Melee then quickly throw a grenade. It’s like the BxR and BxB, only with a bang.
personally as a, “relatively,” new gamer(only having live gold for 1 1/2 years atm) i was very fond of button glitching in halo 2. but because i did not have live i found that it was an upper hand when i played my brother and friends. they even came to a point that if i bxb’d them or bxr’d them i’d automatically lose no matter what the score came to. at some points they said i couldn’t use the battle riffle because i would only bxr and double shot.
when i got live i played halo 2 for a while before i bought halo 3 and used these glitches in match making. although halo 3 had been out for a while halo 2 was still going strong with, “glitchers(people who use button combo’s),” and i found myself out matched because i was used to easier opponates(fail at spelling) i would often end with a negative kd ratio.
at this point(if you’ve read this far) i had tasted both sides of the glitching and i found that if you were good enough to use the button combo affectively then go ahead and use it.
as for superjumping and other glitches like invincability(fail again) in cod5 those should be punishable offenses even though i admit i went under castle once in cod5.
To me, there are many types of glitches. One being glitches in maps, whichare just bugs that testers/game designers missed and DID NOT INTEND TO BE IN THE GAME.
Another is button glitching and controller modding. Button glitching is still technicly glitching. Yes, it is avaliable to everyone, but so is using a lag switch. The button glitching in halo 2 was NOT INTENDED TO BE IN THE GAME.It was just something that somebody figured out and exploited. Modding your controller is call of duty 4 and 5 is also avaliable to everyone, but the game designers made those weapons to fire as fast as you can move your finger. The game designers could not have forseen someone taking such time out of there life to manipulate the controller. This was also NOT INTENDED TO BE IN THE GAME.
Another type is glitching is when making maps. I must admint that i have used these type of glitches to help make a map of mine better. Even though it was not intended to be in the game, it is still making the map better and funner for everyone who plays on it.
Glitching in my opinion even goes as far as to boosting your rank. Which is also a bug in the game that testers / game designers had not forseen. It is also NOT INTENDED TO BE IN THE GAME.
Glitching comes in many forms, but only certain types of glitching can be bad for muliplayer experience. I.e. superjumping, boosting, etc. But glitching like forging objects together just makes the map better and also makes anyone’s experrience on the map better.
If you still play H2 enough to know a bunch of tricks, then have at it. It’s what makes it such a different experience from H3. (If you find any in H3 good luck because it’ll probably be gone in about a week.) There are also very few glitches besides button combos that are practical in matchmaking anyway. And button combos are now pretty much a feature of H2, not a glitch. Thinking pragmatically, there’s just not a real problem.
hey well i use some of what ure desribing as ‘glitches’ such as the crouching off the man cannon in valhalla so i can bounce up the hill and get to the slaser like a second faster than the enemy, but come on can we really count that as cheating or glitching?
its an in game mechanic, using it and other glitches alike doesnt guarantee a win, nor guanantee that the other team wont do the same.
halo 3 even has a theatre mode so you can learn from ure opponents doings and so copy them yourself.
Other glitches like throwing the flag through the window in isolation ARE just tactics, its easy enough to stop them, dont complain about them doing that tactic-that-shouldnt-work-if-it-werent-for-that-glitch and gun them down and either do the glitch yourself or the normal way. If you cant then dont complain about it.
Glitches happen. I think some people are confused of what a glitch actually is, although it has been explained many times before on this page; but a glitch is never something that is intentionally put into a game.
I remember arguing about this with a couple of kids in Halo 2, as they claimed, “Bungie added superbounces to put strategy in the game.” By the way this post will be primarily aimed at the Halo series, just because.
I remember all of the fun that I used to have with my friends in Halo 2 while we walked through Headlong trying to create our own super bounces. We were going to make a montage of all of the cool chains we could create. We even managed to create a 24 chain bounce that required you to land precisely on 24 seperate corners throughout the map. It was a very enjoyable thing to do.
Now, I don’t understand why many of you act as if the people who find these glitches do it in a malicious manner. Even BXR and BXB- my friends and I tried to find all sorts of button-combos right when Halo 3 came out. Not to raise my rank in matchmaking (of which I have no desire) but to show our other friends and take pride that we found something in the game most others had not.
When it comes to people putting these into play in Matchmaking- what’s the difference? Although I rarely play matchmaking (+3500 Customs), I don’t see why everyone is offended if someone brings something new to the table that would make you wonder, instead of scripted play (WoW term).
If I was playing Team Doubles and saw someone shooting a weapon on their back, getting into impossible places, I wouldn’t be agrovated and through my controller out of rage, I would play out the game and then ask them how they did that? Because it intrigues me. If they were to answer “Ha you’ll never know because you’re bad. LOL” than that just means that their personality as well as their social skills are lacking, but this doesn’t mean that using that glitch is “evil”.
My personal belief is that if people weren’t so obsessed with their matchmaking ranks (do you know that people actually BUY level 50 accounts!?) than this wouldn’t be an issue in the first place. People become so upset if they lose their rank, when it’s completely artificial. People won’t judge you if you lose one set of pixels and have it replaced with another set of pixels.
A game should have no “Honor Rules” (ForgeHub term, and others). This means the game should be built so that people can play it however they see fit, and if this means the use of glitches, so be it. Who really wants to play a game where they are limited and criticized for playing it the way that they want to?
Anyways, I think I babbled a bit. Hope my comment gave some insight.
-Bryan (UrStuck)
^^^ Yes.
I’d be curious to know if most glitchers think they could win without using glitches. For those that say yes, they could win, then it makes me wonder why they bother with the glitching, at least in matchmaking. It isn’t a stretch to assume a lot of their opponents get irritated when they find that someone in their match isn’t operating within the standard limits of the game. Sure, some are curious or amused, but I’d say most don’t like going in to a match expecting to test a certain set of skills only to find that their opponents are working with another skill set entirely. So in this case, glitchers are out there doing something they don’t *need* to do and consequently decreasing the enjoyment of others. That sounds a lot like being a griefer to me.
On the other hand, for the glitchers that say, no, they couldn’t win without manipulating the game, well, isn’t that the definition of cheating? They lack the skills to win playing within the standard accepted limits of the game, so they modify the limits to give themselves (and not anyone else) better odds.
No matter which way the ‘why glitch in matchmaking’ question is answered, the glitcher doesn’t come out sounding like the sort of guy you’d want to run into in a lobby: a jerk or a cheater. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with glitching in and of itself, especially if you’re trying to learn something. I just don’t think there is any way it can be an acceptable part of matchmaking.