When I wrote the article detailing Nathaniel’s Xbox 360 repair story , I simply offered the events leading up to the ultimate loss of his custom case. I didn’t give my personal opinion on the subject nor did I say how I felt about certain aspects of the story. I have also stayed out of the comments for the most part as I don’t like to interrupt the flow of the dialog. But believe it or not I do have an opinion. And if you know me at all, you also know I love to share my opinion. So let the sharing commence.
That story was an important one that I felt needed to be told for a few different reasons. After Nathaniel received his console back minus the autographs and custom artwork, he attempted to contact Microsoft to discuss what happened. He wasn’t looking for compensation, and he didn’t want heads to roll. He simply wanted to talk about it with them. Microsoft didn’t answer any of his correspondence though. Sometimes to feel like a valued customer all you need is a simple acknowledgment and perhaps an apology if appropriate. But that wasn’t given to him, and I find that inexcusable. After the article was published, Microsoft contacted Nathaniel directly and assured him they would look into the situation. I am pleased they initiated the communication finally, and better late than never is certainly applicable here.
I also was disturbed by the complete breakdown of communication between their phone support and their repair service. Am I surprised? Of course not. Microsoft is a company with thousands of employees spread amongst numerous countries around the world that pulls in billions of dollars every year. But just because a company is that large is not an excuse for giving out incorrect information. Nathaniel was assured by phone support that he would get his console back with the artwork still intact. Hardcore gamers like you and I that are well versed in this world would know better than that. But think about the amount of casual gamers out there that have no idea what happens behind the scenes. Think about the parents out there that are not gamers but have to deal with the support for their children’s consoles. When you call their phone support, they should be giving out accurate information, plain and simple. A phone representative never should have told him his custom case would be ok, but the incorrect information led to a very tangible loss for Nathaniel. I don’t know where the answer lies there beyond training their phone reps better, but something needs to change. When people call for support, they need to be given proper support.
Some people have decided to start doing picture comparisons in order to prove the story is a fake. Despite the fact that we have no idea what sort of cleaning solution the repair centers use and despite the fact that things absolutely never smudge when you clean (yes, that was sarcasm), these pictures seem to prove something. Unfortunately this picture that I found compares the top of the case to the bottom of the case (check the faceplate placement) but everybody’s an expert, right? Well, everybody except the person that did this picture that is. I really see all of the smudge discussion to be a moot point personally. I have done a lot of cleaning in my day and I’ll be the first to tell you that when you clean something, it often smudges in the direction you are wiping. Believe it or not, when you clean something up, it doesn’t always stay isolated in the one pixel it was originally in.
Some people are suggesting the case was actually swapped out. Whether or not that is the truth, I have absolutely no idea. The serial numbers still match up so is it possible to change cases but keep the same serial number? Again, I don’t know. I’m one of the few people on the internet that isn’t an expert I guess. Will we ever find out what happened? Perhaps Microsoft can uncover it, perhaps not. The truth lies with the employee that handled the case, and probably that person only.
Do I think this was a big conspiracy and Microsoft maliciously decided to exact revenge on Nathaniel for whatever reason? Of course not. But I do think that Microsoft needs to be held accountable for it as it was the breakdown of communication that led to the mistake. And by accountable I don’t mean suing and damages. I do mean they need to look into what happened (as they are) and attempt to correct wherever the breakdown occurred.
A popular sentiment has been the blame the victim game because he shouldn’t have believed what they told him since it came from a large corporation. Are we really so jaded as a society by crappy customer service from large institutions that we now blame the people who believe what they are told instead of the businesses that give out the incorrect information? I’m not. Call me naive but I don’t care how big a company is. If they say something, that needs to happen. Period. It’s what good business is all about. It’s called customer service, and it’s what needs to happen. Is it reality? No. Should it be? Absolutely.
Posted by SpaceGhost2K on March 1, 2008 at 2:42 pm
This is going to be long, and I am NOT an employee or representative of Microsoft. In other words, this post is made “as-is” with no warranties expressed or implied. That’s lawyer talk for “CYA.” I won an award from them and except for a desire to make positive contributions to the Xbox gaming community, I have no connection with them whatsoever.
I managed a Best Buy Media department for two months during the Y2K “scare.” In addition to those duties, as the new guy I was often saddled with “Manager On Duty” responsibilities while the more experienced managers made themselves scarce. If there was a customer issue in any department of the store, it was my job to handle the situation.
We had an employee in another department make two promises or assurances to a customer. One, the customer was told that a particular stereo was sufficiently powerful enough to handle a job as she described it. Two, the customer was told that if it did not, she could return the item within 14 days for a full refund.
She took it home, it didn’t do the job, and she attempted to return it. Upon arrival at the store, she was told that because the item was over $250 and because she had paid with a check, the company would happily cut her a check after 14 days had passed.
It didn’t matter that she actually came in with a statement from her bank that the check had cleared, or that the item was returned with all packing intact, or that the employee had promised her something beyond “policy.” She needed a sufficient stereo for an event that weekend, and Best Buy would not be moved.
I called operations. They were closed for the weekend. I called Loss Prevention. I was told they would call me back and they didn’t. I had a customer service cashier threaten to quit if I overruled her and approved the refund. And it wouldn’t have mattered anyway because the computer system wouldn’t allow a manual override.
This customer was screwed.
Finally, after four hours of exhausting everything I could think of, I had an idea. I grabbed a power supply and got in line with her. We returned the stereo and purchased the power supply, bringing the total $$$ to be returned UNDER $250. She took the refund in cash. THEN we returned the power supply and she took THAT refund in cash.
As a manager, as THE manager, I should have had the ability to evaluate a situation, consider company policy, make a decision, and implement my decision. I didn’t. I gave notice shortly after this event because I could not work in that environment. Apparently, I wasn’t the only one because a class action lawsuit over just such issues was filed about a year later and after five years of litigation, Best Buy settled for about $13 million dollors, just hours before the judges’ ruling.
The truth of the matter is this: An employee of our company made a promise to a customer that he should not have made. He didn’t know the policy or extend the details of the return policy to the customer. So, do you stand by the employee and violate policy? OR, do you stand by the policy and hit the employee with a “corrective action plan?” One thing to keep in mind here… these were the difficulties I experienced, and all of this happened IN THE SAME BUILDING. I could talk directly to the customer, or the salesman, or customer service/returns. I could inspect the product myself. I could look at her bank statement myself.
Imagine the complexities involved when the customer is in one country, the call center in another, and the repair center in a third. Now consider also that while there is a certain amount of communication at the top of these segments of the organization, that communication is converted into policy, and that policy is put into affect for the lower-level employees.
When Robbie Bach makes a decision, it will ultimately affect that guy wiping down an Xbox in Mexico. But there is no way that every business decision made by Robbie Bach is going to get passed onto that guy. He doesn’t know what Ballmer or Bach or even Bell is deciding today. He knows what the sign says on the wall that tells him what his job is. And if Bach’s decisions ever result in a change to the poster, then he’ll do what THAT poster says.
The phone employee should receive corrective action.
The guy who wiped down the box was doing his job, to the letter.
Microsoft is NOT responsible for maintaining the modifications made by the customer to his Xbox, regardless of what the errant phone employee said.
However, Microsoft SHOULD, in a gesture of compassion, try to make up for the loss by placing a few a calls and offering a similarly cool replacement. Obviously, an exact replacement is impossible. They can’t replace the emotional value of having hunted these people down and asking them as a fan to autograph your console in person.
Posted by the light show on March 1, 2008 at 2:42 pm
i just hope that it’ll work out, i think i’m not the only one that would say that i’d be more than pissed if it were mine. then again, i wouldn’t have sent it in the first place. i would have saved up and just mooched off my budies until i had enough saved up to at least get the core. i ain’t rich but i know how to save my money for something i really want.
Posted by SpaceGhost2K on March 1, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I didn’t want to go over some blog limit for posting, so I split this up.
Let’s say Microsoft does come up with a suitable replacement. Then what? Do they modify their policy to no longer clean consoles when they come in? That any after-market modifications that doesn’t break the seal is left untouched? If an after-market modification is damaged, should they be held responsible? If you paint it and it gets scraped, then what? If a sticker you got at Comic-Con 2005 gets peeled up on the corner, are they responsible for replacing it?
No. I mean, come on. They have to draw a line. They provide a console that consists of “X” and they are only responsible for returning to the customer a console that ALSO consists of “X.” IF you want your modified console returned intact, then don’t send it through the corporate process to be repaired. Take it to someone local, and pay for the repairs.
Again, they HAVE TO DRAW A LINE. And that line needs to be clearly understood in all countries and all languages. So the line can’t be all sguiggly to accomodate all varieties of weirdness that might pass through the doors. It would be “nice” if that were the case, but it’s an unreasonable expectation of service.
Posted by bs angel on March 1, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Who is asking for all of those things SpaceGhost? I haven’t seen a single comment about any of the requests you listed. The one thing I said I would like to see come from this is accurate information from their phone support. And I don’t find that to be too high of an expectation. Quite opposite in fact. It should be a given.
Posted by madBOX20 on March 1, 2008 at 3:23 pm
i believe the real problem here is the fact that microsoft made a bad product and now are so overwhelmed with trying to “band aid” the problem instead of fixing it they are making promises they can’t live up to. im really sick of microsoft. when i get my xbox box back from this fix it will be my 4th xbox. this is totally inexcusable for a company to make a product that cost this much money and not work properly.
Posted by el moco on March 1, 2008 at 3:24 pm
what she said.
Posted by mendicantbias00 on March 1, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Thanks Angel, not just for helping Nathaniel but for bringing the situation to light. I think in the long run you will have helped out a lot more people than you realize, and may have set large scale changes in motion.
Posted by HandRooster » February 29, 2008 on March 1, 2008 at 5:39 pm
[...] it looks like Hawty has some additional info and although the opinion war wages on about the issue, I continue to support the idea that [...]
Posted by madBOX20 on March 1, 2008 at 5:40 pm
you gotta love a woman in power :)
Posted by SpaceGhost2K on March 1, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Angel, all I meant is that what if there WERE those requests? Is Microsoft obligated to handle every one individually? How much effort is reasonably expected for Microsoft to take care of after market console modifications?
On January 5, 2006 I got to go to Nickelodeon Studios and pitch a cartoon. I was given an adhesive name badge to wear while I was on the property. When I got home, I stuck it on my laptop. If I ever have to send my laptop in somewhere for repairs, I am in no position to complain if my laptop comes back with the sticker torn or removed. I don’t expect them to be careful of it. That’s not their job. Their job is to repair the laptop and send it back to me.
I guess my point is that Microsoft can’t hand the judgement calls over to the people at the bottom of the ladder. The people at the top write the rules. The people at the bottom follow them. When you’ve got two people in a small store that repairs consoles, you can expect to have a little flexibility. But when you’re talking about a company with over a hundred thousand employees worldwide, it’s unreasonable.
Policy: Clean em, fix em, return em. They did that.
Posted by madBOX20 on March 1, 2008 at 6:09 pm
dude, spaceG. her point is not that they should make this promise. its the fact that they did and he got screwed. im sure if he called and they said “no sorry we can’t make that promise” he probably would have thought twice about sending it in. if you call your local blockbuster and ask “do you have HOTROD in” and they say “yeah we’ll hold a copy for you” and when you get there they didn’t save it. wouldn’t you get pissed. i mean if they weren’t going to hold it for you then no big deal. you weren’t expecting it. but they said they will. no they don’t HAVE to hold a movie for anyone. but they made that promise and you wasted $3.20 a gallon gas on nothing. i don’t think i have seen angel say they should do this for anyone who wants this service.
Posted by bs angel on March 1, 2008 at 6:10 pm
SpaceGhost, you continue to miss the biggest point I am attempting to make by elaborating on an issue that isn’t relevant. My focus is on what the customer is told and what actually happens. If you can’t do something of course that is understandable, especially in a special case like this. But when you can’t, don’t tell them you can. Someone told him they could do his special request, thus resulting in a tangible loss. There needs to be a consistency between the phone support and the actual support. You can play the what if game all you would like. I’m going to stay focused on the actual issue.
Posted by jb84 on March 1, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Good post. This communication problem is no surprise though. I work at a bookstore, and at certain times of the season, we have well over 50 employees. It’s so freaking challenging to get the new people to not say something stupid on occasion, no matter how much one-on-one training we do with them. And I’m not surprised since even now I still say something dumb every now and then.
So yes, I agree that people shouldn’t say “yes” to the customer if they can’t deliver. But this happens all the time, no matter how much training is involved. It sucks, but we’re humans, and we make stupid mistakes.
Posted by Ragingterror on March 1, 2008 at 8:47 pm
“After Nathaniel received his console back minus the autographs and custom artwork, he attempted to contact Microsoft to discuss what happened. He wasn’t looking for compensation, and he didn’t want heads to roll.”
… and I still don’t.
The simple fact of the matter is that there was a communication breakdown somewhere along the line. Microsoft is looking into it, and hopefully they can use this story to prevent something like this from ever happening again. That is all I ask.
Now, I think it’s wonderful that they have agreed to work something out for me (though I have absolutely no idea what), but that’s not the purpose here. People need to know about cases like these, and support staff that deal with dozens of RROD cases every single day need to be familiar enough with the actual repair process that they know what requests can and cannot be accommodated.
And that, as they say, is that.
Posted by mootsfox on March 1, 2008 at 11:06 pm
They never said his artwork would be safe. They said that he would receive the same Xbox back, which he did.
Microsoft did nothing wrong here, it’s the gamer’s fault, period.
Posted by jb84 on March 1, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Mootsfox, we don’t know exactly what was said on the phone. The original story posted a few days ago is a little vague on the exact details.
But considering he included a letter discussing his concerns about the artwork, it’s a logical assumption that he expressed the same concerns to the agent on the phone.
Posted by jb84 on March 1, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Oh, and imagine this.
1. You bring your BLUE car into the repair shop. They assure you that you will get back the same car you gave them.
2. They fix your car, but now it’s RED.
Lemme guess — that was your fault, right?
Posted by agdTinMan on March 1, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Microsoft phone support is only trained to get you off the phone as quick as possible. They WILL tell you ANYTHING to ensure that, even if it is “Yes, I PROMISE your downloaded content will work tomorrow! You’re asking what if it doesn’t? Well, I PROMISE you it will!”
Posted by Ragingterror on March 2, 2008 at 12:43 am
^^^
So you’re saying we should just expect that this will forever be the case and isn’t worth changing? I don’t think so.
Simply letting something like this go will not do anyone any good at all when it comes to dealing with support services, and that is simply not good enough.
Posted by bs angel on March 2, 2008 at 12:51 am
agdTinMan speaks from experience unfortunately, much like you do.
his story
Posted by SpaceGhost2K on March 2, 2008 at 1:27 am
If it seems like I was defending the wrong argument, I’m sorry.
If an employee told you wrong information, it is still not the company’s responsibility to honor that wrong information. It is entirely their right to state AFTER THE FACT that what the employee told you was indeed erronious. It is entirely their right to chastise the employee who gave out the erronious information. And they are not obligated by any erronious statement made by an employee.
I will use another analogy and I will keep it to the point at hand. Chuck works at Radio Shack. Chuck tells a customer over the phone that DVD players are free today. The customer drives clear across town and arrives to find out that Chuck didn’t know WTF he was talking about. Does that mean Radio Shack owes the guy a DVD player, because an employee told him so? Or because that’s what a company with good customer service would do? Hell no. Radio Shack owes Chuck a “final warning” and some corrective action. All they owe the customer is an apology.
Now it is most definitely sad that someone at Microsoft didn’t offer an apology upon hearing of the incident. But they eventually did. It just took getting the story to the right person at Microsoft to offer the apology. And therein lies the trick, the whole point of the problem: Communication. It is very difficult to track down the person who is actually IN the position to make a promise like that and see that it is honored, OR it is very difficult to track down the person who can offer an apology and a suitable solution.
I paint faceplates. I know that plain white faceplates come in boxes of 200 because I saw two boxes of them at Zero Hour where the artists were airbrushing them for the DOA Tournament. I also know that there are mountains of them at the repair center because consoles come in without them and go out WITH them. And I know a few people in public relations at Microsoft. And STILL… I can’t find out how to go about getting some OEM faceplates for painting. There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 75.000 employees at the Redmond campus. Finding that one guy with the answer isn’t a communications problem – it’s a f’n impossibility. If you were physically ON the campus, looking around, you probably couldn’t find “that guy.” This isn’t the local Starbucks. “He’s in the back” is NEVER going to be the answer. “He” is probably in India or Mexico or China.
Nathaniel, I know you’re straight up because KD said you’re straight up and KD is straight up. I’m sorry to hear about losing that piece. I’m sorry that the guy who assured you was not in a position to see that what he said would happen, would indeed happen. I’m glad that someone at MS who is in a position to do something about it finally heard about it. And I know it can’t replace what you collected personally, but I hope they do something really bitchin’ for you.
Posted by SpaceGhost2K on March 2, 2008 at 1:47 am
I was about to say “one last thing,” but I’m an internet junkie. There IS no “one last thing.”
When I was the Xbox field merchandising rep for a year and a half, I actually worked for a company called Mosaic, not for Microsoft itself. Yeah, it was outsourced, and I was one of the guys it was outsourced to.
My problem was, how can you represent a company if you don’t work for the company?
I tried to be very vocal to Microsoft that they needed to be doing this themselves. Obviously, I didn’t try to be vocal about that to my employer, because they wanted the contract. The last thing they wanted to hear was that using their services was a bad idea.
But here is the deal: MS and Mosaic were like the FBI and the CIA. On paper, they work for the same team, but in reality, they both will ALWAYS have their own best interests at heart. Microsoft didn’t want to give Mosaic all of the information they needed to do the job in a timely manner. Mosaic didn’t want to tell Microsoft that something they wanted to be done couldn’t be done, or that something that was supposed to be working wasn’t ACTUALLY working. Mosaic wanted to look like they were doing a good job, and Microsoft wanted to hear that they were. Nobody REALLY wanted to know the REAL lay of the land.
The solution was for MS to have their OWN merchandising reps, who could be trusted with the information they needed, and could be relied upon to provide accurate feedback on the situation because they had no ulterior motive. Microsoft outsourced for a couple of simple reasons. One, it was the speciialty for Mosaic because that’s what they do, and two it was cheaper because Mosaic already had all of the reporting processes in place. Microsoft didn’t have to “reinvent the wheel.”
That is the situation with the call center. They’re in India, and everybody uses them so everybody doesn’t have to reinvent the wheel. They have the people, they have the resources, they have the processes in place. all they have to do is add a new client to their list.
But Microsoft wants to know that things are going well at the call center, and the call center wants to look like they’ve got a handle on it in Microsoft’s eyes… so how does ANYONE ever find out there’s a breakdown in communications? When shit like this happens. It takes torches and pitchforks before someone looks up from their desk and goes, “What, is there a problem?”
Microsoft is huge and they have money in the bank. They need to have their own merchandisers and not a third party. They need to have their own phone service people and not a third party. And if they’re going to be a hardware company, then they need their own manufacturing and repair facilities and not a third party. Third parties are great if you want to do a “project.” But when you’re talking about a product that you will be making for a long time, those people need to report DIRECTLY to you and not through some person with an ass to cover. They need to be getting checks from “Microsoft” and not “Jose’s 360 Repairs” because that’s the only way to hold people acocuntable. Then they’ll think twice about jerking your chain to get you off the phone, or wiping down a 360 because maybe, just maybe, that might not be the best idea.
Posted by ashame on March 2, 2008 at 5:07 am
Angel you stirred up some sh*t with your article. Even our local game news reported about you :mrgreen: And I can assure you I live in a small @$$ country!
Posted by thewilleffect on March 2, 2008 at 5:07 am
SpaceGhost2K: My experience in retail tells me this. When your on the job for whatever company it may be, you represent that company as a whole. When a bad customer experience happens, the customer isn’t going to bitch and moan about the employee, their going to bitch at the company.
Sure, internally the employee may be in hot water, but whatever the problem may be, it’s getting fixed by the company, not that individual. Location doesn’t matter either. Whether their in India, Redmond, Washington, or the North pole, their still representing Microsoft. Third party or not, the customer has no idea, but in the long run it doesn’t matter. It does say Microsoft when you hear that damn Max on the phone doesn’t it?
If all of us were to play the “what if game”, then wouldn’t all of us be pissed if Microsoft changed their mind after saying they would give out a free XBLA game a few weeks ago after poor Live service? This situation isn’t any different. Them giving out a free game isn’t in any service contract, but they felt they had to and they should have done something. It shouldn’t be any different here.
Posted by jb84 on March 2, 2008 at 6:28 am
I must say, the amount of attention this story is receiving is kind of odd. Worse service happens every day in large corporations.
Posted by madBOX20 on March 2, 2008 at 8:42 am
spaceghost, you talk way too much. and i get the feeling its because you like to hear yourself brag. “when i was this, when i was that, i did this”. that analogy was stupid. this guy didn’t ask for anything for free. all he ask for was that when he turned in his micro-paper weight, he got it back the way it looked when he turned it in. that isn’t a hard task. i understand that they are supposed to clean the outside. but why the hell would you do it, if it has stuff on it that you can tell were put there on purpose. those were ugly smudge marks or nicks or what have you. no they don’t have to make this better and give this guy anything. but if they want to keep customers i would think they will.
Posted by jb84 on March 2, 2008 at 8:56 am
Spaceghost is just trying to explain it from a business perspective. My family owns their own businesses, and I have worked with them, so I can understand where he’s coming from.
I think it’s worth noting that Spaceghost is on “our side.” I’ll repost something he said:
“I’m sorry that the guy who assured you was not in a position to see that what he said would happen, would indeed happen. I’m glad that someone at MS who is in a position to do something about it finally heard about it. And I know it can’t replace what you collected personally, but I hope they do something really bitchin’ for you.”
From what I gather, Spaceghost agrees that it sucks and all that. What he is saying is that it’s practically impossible for these mistakes to never happen. There’s just too many people involved. Too many variables.
Posted by Snatch on March 2, 2008 at 9:16 am
SpaceGhost2K,
Here is some friendly advice. Read before you post. Im sure you did, but next time, read it twice. All he wants is an answer to why there was a communication breakdown, and why he did not get the service he was told he would get. Regardless of your past experience, qualifications, or attitude, your not offering anything positive to the situation.
Maybe he did make a mistake by sending his xbox to get repaired. Maybe he should have spent money he does not have on a second 360. Maybe he should have done ten other things that day.
Or,
He could ask a few questions. He could look for answers as to why this happened. Maybe, just maybe, something will change with the Microsoft communication procedure. And maybe, youll one day benefit from it. If you do someday benefit from Nathan’s loss (by means of policy change or something similar), I hope you look back at your posts, and give your head a shake.
Its a shame that news of something so unfortunate happening to a community member, gets beaten down by people who dont understand the loss, or the desires of the people it has affected. Just take some more time to look at it from his prospective. Maybe even read some of the posts Nathan has made here. Understanding the motives of other people is a great way to properly communicate with them.
Bottom line: He was assured by an employee that everything would be fine. His xbox would return to him the exact way he sent it in (sans red ring). This did not happen. He is not sueing them. He is not demanding 100 new xboxs’ or free xbl for life. He is simply asking what happened, why did it happen, and whats going to be done about it. That is all.
Posted by Ragingterror on March 2, 2008 at 10:29 am
On the topic of motives, I present an excerpt from my latest journal (February 29th):
Before anything else is said, though, I want to make a few things very clear:
1. I did not break this story expecting a hand-out, nor is this an elaborate set-up. Now I know that most those of you who have watched this unfold over the last month–some of whom were present for nearly all of the signings and will attest to the accuracy of my statements–have known me for long enough to realize that this is no hoax. However, there are cynics out there who are willing to think otherwise, and they may find their way here. This statement is for them.
2. Just as it is not my style to ask for a hand-out, it is also not my style to be so blood-thirsty and vengeful as to blindly call for people’s heads or immediately threaten lawsuits. There are numerous reasons I made the decision to become a Registered Nurse instead of going to medical school. One of them is ethics–there is a reason Nurses are consistently rated by the public to be among the most ethical of professional workers (citation: http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2006-12-11-ethics.htm), you know. I thoroughly despise this sort of behavior.
3. I’m willing to make the admission that, in hindsight, sending off my console was clearly not the best plan for preserving the ink that was already on it. Given the information I had at the time I made the decision to send it in, however, it has been declared by the majority that my actions were both logical and reasonable. I am pleased to see that so many people have at least some empathy in this matter. As for the rest of you (you know who you are), I don’t take it personally. I’ve been around on the net long enough to know what the facade of anonymity brings out of people.
4. Finally–not that this is really that big of a deal anyway–, I am not a kid. Please stop referring to me as such; I am a grown man with a wife and a career.
Moving along.
I have no idea how far this crazy train will go or what will come of it all, but I am quite happy to know that if nothing else, word has gotten out and people can use this unfortunate story as a cautionary tale. If you have a case or other electronic item with custom art, signatures, or anything else that adds a “cool factor” or value to the unit, be VERY careful what you do with it.
Posted by Tyrone Hawk on March 2, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Angel, I wrote my comments on your first post. I’m surely glad that different blogs aroud the web are following this, as there’s too much we gamers can take with the problems we have heard lately.
I will add some more on the fact:
1) To those that put the blame on Nataniel when he sent his console, let me ask you: if you send your car to repair, will you not scream if you see that they repaired your car but took off everything that you put on it afterwards? That means: sorry, no pimping your car, no mods, no nothing, as we will give you the car JUST AS IT WENT OUT OF ITS RELEASE DAY!! Think about it.
2) This is only 1 case that we know about. How about all the rest of the users around the US? around America? around the World? who is responsible for them?
3) And for those that are thinking about your working 360, don’t you watch (as I do) everyday you turn it on, and pray that the 10% (or 16%) of chance that’s being announced everywhere does not catch up to you and your console in that moment?
Thank you Angel for initiating this. It’s my belief that Microsoft will make a better job afterwards. Too bad a person had to pay for their faults.
Posted by bs angel on March 2, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I think maybe SpaceGhost thought we were asking for something that we weren’t. Regardless, I found his background information into the outsourcing to be valuable for those that have no idea how things work behind the scenes. While those of us that frequent gaming sites and whatnot are somewhat well versed in this stuff, the average gamer is not.
After reading what he said though, what is the solution to this? In my eyes, the problem lies in the fact that the companies that are outsourced are just not that knowledgeable and that there is slim to none effective communication between the phone support, Microsoft itself, and the repair center. How do they streamline that process and get the consumers accurate information?
And I appreciate that we can have rational conversations in this thread. I refuse to participate in the other article for obvious reasons, but this one is a great place to continue the discussion.
Posted by SpaceGhost2K on March 2, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Tyrone mentioned a car as an analogy, as have others before him. It’s not a good analogy and here’s why. When you have a problem with your car, you don’t return it to the factory for repairs. You get it repaired locally. And it’s a small repair on a large piece of equipment. In most cases, there are three or four parts on an Xbox that are just swapped out. They’re not going to spend labor dollars repairing solder joints, and putting $300 in labor into a $100 motherboard.
However, using a car analogy, if your car was totaled, and let’s say it was because if a manufacturer defect where it was the car company replacing it and not your insurance company, they would be replacing it with a stock, factory car. They wouldn’t be giving you your pinstriped, airbrushed car back.
Posted by agdTinMan on March 2, 2008 at 5:23 pm
The consumer shouldn’t be required to know the intricacies of the repair process. If the consumer is told it’s ok to send his xbox back and that the signatures, drawings, etc. will be preserved, he has every right to expect this.
It is not the consumer’s place to SECOND GUESS THE COMPANY, or to “KNOW BETTER”!
Posted by kilaMOMjaro on March 2, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Good for you SpaceGhost! A Mgr SHOULD be able to make those decisions for the customer. It reminds me of the Nordstrom policy…they tell their employees that
1) the customer comes first
2) When in doubt, see number 1
Thats the whole policy! (it was when i was there at least =] )
My original GT was taken from me because of the breakdown in communication at Microsoft. It meant a lot to me but after months of tryng I could NOT get them to give it to me, even though it was the fault of a M$ employee.
Ah well. I hope the console situation gets resolved!
Posted by -S- on March 3, 2008 at 7:48 am
On the PREVIOUS article about this, containing Nathaniel’s original story, I made many long posts/arguments. I’ll make it short, but it’s still very simple.
1) SpaceGhost is right – the company policy is what it is, and the wiper did nothing wrong.
2) Angel is right – the MS employee who spoke to Nathaniel on the phone and made false promises is wrong for ‘telling the customer whatever he wanted to hear’, without actual knowledge of the policy/not giving proper information regarding the policy.
Wanna know how we fix that? FIRE the damned Phone Employee. Seriously, bring ‘em before the higher powers at MS, and can ‘em in front of everybody.
SpaceGhost’s story back at post 1 is another classic tale of the customer getting screwed. Random employee promises something, customer left holding the bag, company has written in stone policy so they have done no wrong. FIRE
FIRE
FIRE the employee. That made the false promises. It’s so simple – apologize to the customer who got the shit end of the stick, and have them watch as you fire the employee that decided to talk a big game without backing up the rules. Do the right thing and set an example. It’s really unfortunate that big companies get away with crap like this, because hey, its the policy.
Well I can agree with that, MS is a gigantic corporation and they need to stand by their policy to do business continuously, bc they most likely have millions of problems to deal with daily. However, that doesn’t mean that we can’t set an example so shit like this doesn’t continue to happen (and more importantly, we dont do something as unbelievably retarded as blaming the victim’. FIRE the employee who made promises.
Make it an event! Set up cameras and sell tickets to civilians on the street. We could even have Nathaniel himself pull a gigantic lever which causes balloons and confetti to rain down with a big sign that says “Hey! You’re Fired!”
The customer comes FIRST.
Negligence in the area of distributing information/lying to the customer should result in PENALTY, so it is no longer encouraged/accepted in ‘too big to care about the little guy’ business.
The Factory worker wiping down consoles is not to blame.
The MS employee who spoke to Nathaniel on the phone IS to blame.
Do not argue with me. I’m totally cereal about this.
Posted by Ragingterror on March 3, 2008 at 7:07 pm
—Make it an event! Set up cameras and sell tickets to civilians on the street. We could even have Nathaniel himself pull a gigantic lever which causes balloons and confetti to rain down with a big sign that says “Hey! You’re Fired!—
You make this sound alarmingly festive…
Posted by El Burritoh on March 3, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Hey!
Bungie is solving this fiasco themselves! Here’s the story on Next-Gen.biz:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9389&Itemid=2
Says Brian Jarrard:
“Something is already ‘afoot’ within Bungie to help our community member in need,” Bungie community director Brian Jarrard told Next-Gen on Monday. “Our team and the community as a whole is rallying to help fix this unfortunate situation. It’s been awesome to see such an outpouring of sympathy and support from our community. We can’t replace the exact item that was lost but, but we should come very close.”
Posted by madBOX20 on March 4, 2008 at 5:39 am
the sad news is by the time they figure out what to do and actually do it. Nathaniel will have to turn in his xbox for repair again with the RRoD.
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Posted by maxmorin on March 4, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Whoa, the comments here are very good. Its a very informative discussion. But I think that ultimately bs angel is correct, and everything that SpaceGhost said, really doesn’t matter. Because as a customer, if you are told that the custom artwork on your case will be preserved, then it should be preserved.
I think that bs angel is right, that if you are told that something will happen, it should happen.
Posted by bs angel on March 4, 2008 at 9:21 pm
That is the exact reason why I did an article separate from the other one, so there was a place for productive discussion. The other article has entirely too many comments to carry on constructive conversation, but this one is nice and cozy.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.