On 12.04.07 Xbox Live subscribers got a whole slew of new features and amazing additions to their already stellar service. Some of the more prominent new features include Inside Xbox (which is a news feed), a section for a bio on your personal profile, the ability to “share” your friends list with others, a new family timer, and downloadable Xbox Originals games. That only touches on the newest system update though. This one was cram packed full of new goodies and improvements for those of us that utilize this service.
I am very thankful Xbox Live continues to work to improve our service. Many times we, the users, have requested certain things and they have come through for us (no more zero-gamerscore trial games on your played games list! Yay!). I don’t want this to come across as me being ungrateful. I want this to come across as a plea to get to the basics of what this service is about.
There are a few new features I would like to see added to the Feedback System. I do believe this system works. I use it whenever appropriate and will continue to do so. I believe it can be improved by two additional options though, and those options are adding discrimination to the list of feedback choices and the ability to forward unaltered voice and text messages to Microsoft.
There have been numerous discussions about adding more options to the negative feedback choices for quite some time now. People have called for racial discrimination to be added. And sexual harassment. And gender discrimination. And religious discrimination. PositiveSpinKim recently started a thread on the Xbox.com forums about this very subject. She not only wants more options under the “File Complaint” category but she also wants these new options to be monitored very closely.
While I agree with the basic premise of her request, I don’t think monitoring these complaints closer than the rest of the negative feedback options is a good idea. The feedback system will always be abused. Feedback systems in general are only as good as the users (you can help balance that by frequently leaving legitimate feedback, both positive and negative). If you choose to watch one area closer than the others than that is the area that will be abused the most. While I do find these offenses much more serious that simple trashtalking obviously, I do not think it should be weighed heavier than the rest.
I don’t think it needs to be broken down into several different options either. There are several forms of harassment and discrimination out there. Obviously the main ones are race, gender, sexual orientation, and religion. However, discrimination also exists with age. Or names. Or hair color. Or absolutely anything. This is Xbox Live we are talking about. People will be jerks about absolutely anything and everything. I would like to see a blanket discrimination option added but not have it broken down more than that.
The second feature I would like to see added is the ability to forward an unaltered voice, text message, or image to the people who monitor the feedback for Xbox Live. There needs to be a safeguard in place where you can’t add anything to the message and can only send it as is. Assuming that safeguard can be put into place, this would be an amazing new feature.
People trashtalk all the time on Xbox Live. I employ the “in one ear and out the other” technique. It doesn’t bother me, I mute the person, and completely tune them out. I also send feedback on them and then the cycle is complete. Sometimes however people choose to cross the line and send harassing voice and/or text messages. Yes, you can block their communication. But that doesn’t stop you from seeing that offensive message in the first place.
I have been sent some absolutely disgusting, repulsive, and horribly offensive voice and text messages. Everything from sexual messages about what they want to do to me in extremely graphic language to sexist garbage that is entirely unacceptable. I was once told through a voice message that this person was going to find me, lay me down on the kitchen table, cut me open with a butcher’s knife, and eat my intestines as he raped me all because I won a game of Rumble Pit. To me, that crosses any line of trashtalking. I am not a baby. I can suck it up and deal with the immature trashtalking. Messages like that however have no place on Xbox Live.
When I get messages such as that one, I want to be able to forward them to somebody and have the situation dealt with in a timely fashion. People like that don’t deserve to get a certain amount of complaints before they are banned. They deserve to have their service taken away immediately. If I could forward a harassing voice and/or text message without having the ability to alter them, the case should be a clear cut one and the consequence should be swift and just.
When people sign up for Xbox Live, they agree to certain Terms of Use. Included in this are :
You also agree not to do any of the following while being connected to the Service:
-Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten, or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.
-Publish, distribute, or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent, or unlawful topic, name, material, file or information.
-Publish, distribute or disseminate any topic, name, material, file or information that incites, advocates, promotes, depicts, constitutes or expresses child pornography, profanity, hatred, bigotry, racism, illegal drug use, gratuitous or graphic violence or criminal or fraudulent activity.
I understand these people pay $50 a year to utilize this service. I also understand these people are breaking their terms of service and should thus have their service revoked. Trashtalking is not the issue. Discrimination and harassment is. Some people like to say that Microsoft won’t terminate services because they will lose money from the lost subscriptions. I find that to be a flawed argument. I know several people that have hopped on Xbox Live for the first time with a friend, heard the verbal harassment that occurs on a regular basis, and then get completely turned off of the service and refuse to consider even getting it. I also know people who are long time users but are considering canceling their accounts because they are tired of the negative atmosphere. Microsoft would hopefully retain and get more business if they cleaned up Live.
Women are not discriminated against more than any other segment of the Xbox Live population. I firmly believe everybody is harassed on this service unfortunately. My stories just happen to be gender related as that is what I hear the most. I recognize harassment knows no boundaries when it comes to gender, sexual orientation, religion, race, and any other way people choose to segregate certain groups of individuals.
These comments were left in the article Top 10 Things Female Gamers Hear on Xbox Live and show a very small segment of harassment that occurs when playing games. They all illustrate instances that crossed the line of decency.
I can take the comments no probs, but I draw the line when someone thinks it is a good idea to send me pictures of his knob using his live cam (12 pictures in total). Not funny, especially when my kids also use my account.
Wats up with all the gay comments. EVERY game banter from our opponents is some gay form diss.
Normally it just makes me laugh but there has been twice where guys on my team have gone against me and harrassed me the entire game. My own team! Those two times I was not able to laugh or shrug it off. I have never been so ripped into or torn down for absolutely no reason. Each time I just ignored them and let the other members of my team rip into them. The last time though the guy got up in my face and he had been saying some really, really awful things that I can’t repeat.
I expect this happens to you about as often as I hear the N-word on there, unfortunately.
My friends and I are from a country called Barbados which is located in the Caribbean. Many a nights on Gears of War and Halo 3 we’ve been heckled about our accents and country sometimes we have to mimic an American accent as not to be ridicule and be understood clearly because it seems alot of persons expect only Americans to be on live. Sometimes we are even botted from gears with the host saying or messaging us after “we dont play with terrorist” but the latest one in Gears left us truly shocked last night. We join a 4 on 4 game and when we begun to talk teh host asked us “are you black?”: which we responded yes then we were promptly booted.
I had one guy tell me to take my fallopian tubes and go hang myself.
Hopefully the addition of new features within the Feedback System of Xbox Live would help improve our experience. I have been using this service for over four years now and I am not going anywhere. I just wish it would be a more positive place sometimes.
Posted by Cat on December 5, 2007 at 2:06 am
Very nice post. I’ve definitely gotten to the point where I’m just not sure I can or want to shrug it off any more. It’s been like this since day 1…
I think it’s quite interesting that I haven’t played Xbox Live in over a month and not missed it a single bit.
Again, nice post. :)
Posted by Lou on December 5, 2007 at 3:17 am
I think that would be a very useful addition to the service. There certainly aren’t enough preventative measures stopping complete idiots enforcing their idiocy. I’ve had no end of racial offences spouted against me. People tend to assume I’m Chinese, just because of my name. And I’ll get kicked before games have barely started because people ASSUME I’m in China and ASSUME I’ll just lag the game out.
It is indeed very whack.
Posted by Kim on December 5, 2007 at 7:56 am
Excellent post. I have also thought that you should be able to send unaltered pictures and messages to Microsoft so they can deal with the situation immediately. That would be great.
Posted by -S- on December 5, 2007 at 8:38 am
This is probably one of the most practical ideas I have heard in quite a while.
One of the biggest issues everyone in the community has is where you draw the line between trash talking/and harrassment. Although it might seem a little hazy at times, we all know deep down that it shouldn’t be hard at all to see the line in the sand. Ragging against your opponents mid-game to get inside their heads and throw them off their game is a little underhanded, but we’d all be lying if we said that we’ve never done it before at least once. However, when it goes beyond trying to throw your opponent off their game, it’s wrong, and its horribly easy to spot. Joking around in the game is talking trash. Spewing hate at your foes in the post-game lobby AFTER the game is over is unecessary. Sending someone a friend request AFTER the game is over with a detailed message describing how you want to mutilate and rape them on a kitchen table is seriously disturbing.
Once you find yourself doing more than simply trying to get into your opponents head to muss their concentration, you’ve crossed over that line in the sand. Kicking someone out of the game because of race/sex/voice/favorite brand of muffin? Shouting hate and racism at members of your OWN randomly assembled MM team? Tracking previous opponents with horriffic messages and voice attachments?
…Why?
What’s the point? Are you trying to ruin these people mentally so that the next time they see you in matchmaking they’ll just rip out their ethernet cord for fear of playing in the same room with you again? Solid idea for eliminating the competition, in my opinion. Honestly these changes would be great; the feedback feature shouldn’t be a ’suggestions box’ of who to deal with – it should be like the Human Resources department at any self respecting business (which Xbox Live is…a business). Ideas like these are the kind we need to keep Live the awesome place it is.
Posted by ResilientMonkey on December 5, 2007 at 8:40 am
Hi Angle, very nice post. I like the insightful idea of being able to forward such voice and text messages, very impressive. It shows you have given much thought to this.
However for me, the whole Xbox Live experience has been negative. I have only played ONCE where I have had a positive experience. That was a single game of “Team Fortress 2″ that I thoroughly enjoyed. EVERY OTHER game I have played on Live has been a negative experience.
For some reason though, I continue to pay the $7.99 a month for Xbox Live. We (my family and I) like to download movies and new Xbox Live Arcade games, so it’s not a total waste of money.
I have met some friendly people in the forum you run though, and I hope that gaming with you and them leads to a positive experience for me.
You are probably the sole reason that I keep a small smidgeon of hope that Xbox Live might be a decent place to play.
Thanks!
Posted by mdmadph on December 5, 2007 at 8:57 am
Seriously, I don’t know how you women gamers deal with that shit.
What I’m always wondering is: by now you know that when the situation is made available like this for men to show the darkest most asshole-y-est parts of their psyche, they will — do you ever find yourself feeling the same kind of violent hatred towards players when they defeat you?
Posted by Jordan on December 5, 2007 at 9:53 am
I would love for the discrimination option to be made available when filing a complaint. Normally when a user is distasteful (and in most of my issues, that is being nice) as you do, I mute them. I don’t want to hear it, I don’t want to deal with it.
I hear this the most when I’m on any type of social game. My poor friends have also had to endure this bullshit whenever we’re teamed together for social games. Which is also why I do NOT like social at all. If I do, I’ll go in with one other person, and we’re both in a chat together so we don’t have to hear anything else.
Maybe it’s the holiday season, but I’ve got a lot more verbal abuse this past week and a half then I’ve got any other week that I’ve been on Live thus far. It really does get frustrating, but I love that I can avoid the player, and then file a complaint if it’s deemed necessary. But I would love even more to truly know that that my feedback and complaint is actually recognized.
I know that they will suspend a user’s a account for 1-2 days based on various negative feedback; But the complaints I’ve filed thus far, I have no idea if they went through, were looked into or anything. I wish they had some sort of “response team” that notified you that the complaint was looked investigated. I don’t want to know if they did anything, but I just want to know that they got it and actually acknowledged it.
This is also why I have a few of the harassing voice saved still. I wanted to keep them in case I was contacted for more information.. Still haven’t heard anything, so I’m tempted to delete them, though I did make my own “copy” ;P
Posted by Crazyeye0 on December 5, 2007 at 10:12 am
XBL for me is a sort of 50-50 experience for me, usualy it stays on the good side, but I do get sick of some of the rubbish that goes on. I seem to find myself in games where everybody feels to yell “F**K YOU YOU MOTHERF***ER!” Everytime they die, or say “yo N-” or just talk like gangsters, it’s all pretty annoying, but I’ve got used to living with it.
The discrimination option would for me be a great idea, as being for some reason being British seems to be the worst sin you can commit. I’ve had one person ask if I was “straight up European”, to which I responded yes, and was then Muted by him. Even french people are bad, since numerous occasions of being sweared at with the F word for being British by French people rather angrily, I simply just turn off my mic when with French people, it’s sad…
“It seems alot of persons expect only Americans to be on live”
Sad but true…
Fortunatley this dosn’t happen too much so I’m perfectly happy, I’ve had worse in real life.
Posted by Josh on December 5, 2007 at 10:24 am
The thing about the table actually made me feel physically sick. Some people are really twisted.
My Gamertag often incites people to shout anti-Islamic things at me, or ask me if I am a Buddhist or a Muslim, despite the fact that my GT is an oxymoron, and, therefore obviously a joke, I mean, Buddhists on Jihad is a ridiculous idea, but I also get ridiculous racist slurs hurled at me despite my stereotypical British accent.
On the flip side, I often have Americans telling me how “awesome” my accent is. Completely ordinary phrases for me seem hilarious to them. I actually like it when that happens, it gives me a chuckle.
Posted by bs angel on December 5, 2007 at 10:45 am
Do I get disgusted by some people absolutely? Does it affect me sometimes when it shouldn’t? Absolutely. Do I ever say anything in the same nature back? Never.
If someone does a light hearted insult, at times I will give them a good natured ribbing right back and often that makes them laugh and then the situation is fixed. If someone says something truly offensive, they will not get a single word from me. They get muted, blocked, and feedback sent on them. Other people’s behavior has no impact on my own. The way I choose to conduct myself depends only on myself, not external influences.
Posted by silvercube on December 5, 2007 at 11:07 am
Reading this post today made me cry.
Especially what you wrote in bold.
It is revolting and mind-blowing.
I am so glad that I do not know any of those psychos in my personal life. Just because xbox live can give you anonymity, it does not mean you can turn into Hitler.. or worse.
Personally speaking, Halo 3 in general is a great game, but the community on there, for the most part-is trash.
However, there are some games on xbox live where you probably never have any issues when playing online.
Whenever I played DDR Universe online (as I have amassed quite a few games) I never experienced one nasty comment. It was all peaceful. Same goes with the previous iterations.
Games like Halo attract creeps.
I played Halo last night with Dirty Jenna and Calliopeia, and there was so many people harassing Jenna. It is ridiculous.
I occasionally here some very nasty Jewish comments- and it does hurt because I am Jewish.
Comments like:
“All the Jews should have died in the Holocaust’
or
“Jews need to get the f*ck off of Xbox”
or
“You should have been dead years ago, you Jewish Mother-F*cker”.. I could go and on..
And the things I hear about women and black people are also very astounding. I am a bit sensitive, so I can cry when I hear people say such hateful things. It makes me sad that there are people in this world that are so evil.
Posted by -S- on December 5, 2007 at 11:47 am
@ mdmadph -
You bring up a good point, and Angel brings up an interesting response.
How do you deal with people who act like this on Live when you’re trying to enjoy yourself? It’s never easy, and there’s really no right answer. Some people chose the high path – don’t sink to their level, the mute button is there for a reason. The other choice is to grab the bull by the horns and attempt to fight back. Both choices work in their own way, but they also both tend to cause problems as well. Obviously the high path is a solid choice because it’s quick, simple, and the source of the problem is immediately removed with a quick ‘mute’. However if you look at it a certain way, you may be covering it up, but the problem still exists; theres still rivers of hate flowing on the other side of that muted mic. On the other hand, trying to “beat them at their own game” may seem satisfying if you manage to pull it off – but you’re just adding to the problem in the long run. You’ve beaten fire with fire, but the end result is just..really…more fire. Everywhere.
Personally I’m honest enough to say I’ve done both – I hate encouraging idiocy by hitting them with comebacks (you’re just feeding the monster) but I also hate standing on the sidelines knowing that this moron is going to get away with talking like a hate-mongering 12 year old on crystal meth without doing anything about it. For the most part, I feel that it can be very situational. If someone slips out a hurtful statement mid-game, usually my friends and I will punish him for doing so, especially if his original statement was directed at one of said friends. Other times I’ll simply ignore and continue to punish the offender with my BR, knowing that no matter what he manages to throw at me it’s only an act of sad desperation. That makes me giggle. All in all, the mute button is deffinitely your best friend when you need it, and hopefully the feedback system will continue to improve so we won’t have to deal with the worst of the worst. I just thought it’d be interesting to find out how everyone else deals with this.
Posted by -S- on December 5, 2007 at 11:48 am
PS. Silvercube dont cry we luv u lol
Posted by TTL L askan on December 5, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Great Ideas.
Simple, and well thought out.
XBL would have to find someone with very thick skin and a mighty banhammer to listen to the most horrible things all day long, and then pay that person to do so.
Posted by silvercube on December 5, 2007 at 6:51 pm
@ -S- : aww thanks! much love : )
Posted by Penguinish on December 5, 2007 at 6:53 pm
I would really like to be able to go into private chat with more than 1 person.
Posted by chickachicka on December 5, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Nice post Angel. I think it’s a great idea.
Posted by Cayote on December 6, 2007 at 11:12 am
If people are idiotic enough to leave someone a stupid message then they deserve to be banned. Someone actually left me a stupid message telling me “Halo was not for girls, all girls are good for is sucking ______ and I should get on my knees and……..it goes on”
So I got my cell phone and made a video of it. That was the best I could do-it didn’t turn out so good-but you could hear it. I sent it to the appropriate people and he was voice banned.
If people knew it was possible to forward a message-maybe that would also prevent them from sending them as well? It would be interesting to see.
Posted by Stuicide on December 6, 2007 at 12:43 pm
I think being able to report an abusive message and having that message be sent straight to the moderators of LIVE would be great.
I love the feedback system and use it extensively.
Posted by Team Fulmoto on December 6, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Love this column. Very well put — I think you are raising important issues that really do need to be dealt with. Crazy stuff happens through headsets designed to facilitate team work and it needs to stop or at least be put in check.
Posted by bigglesworth on December 6, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Great post and i agree that both options would be great additions.
Posted by Unknown on December 7, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Features such as those suggested here would make great additions to the small available list of complaint options. Often, when someone decides to spout off their hate for all to hear, I just cringe and wish for a spontaneous red-ring. A mere “trash talking” feedback doesn’t fit the bill for some of these people, A more appropriate complaint option that carrier more appropriate penalties for those it is filed against is long over due.
Posted by Antho on December 15, 2007 at 10:17 pm
I’ve actually gotten to the point that I don’t plug my mic in, and have everyone muted because some of the thing said are awful. A lot of time I play xbox after a long busy day and don’t appreciate having my experience ruined by some belligerent child who starts tearing apart people playing for arbitrary facts about them or myself because I’m from Canada (Yea, go figure). I have a friend list on live of about 5 people, two of which i know in person, because I can’t be bothered sifting through the negative atmosphere to find people I like playing with. Whats worse, is that i’ve gotten mod’s for things that haven’t happened, I have something like 12% disruptive when I’ve rarely ever had my mic plugged in and am even less likely to talk even when I do unless it’s in game strategy (like in gears). What I get a kick out of also is when I would have the sound on and my mic not plugged in, I would even get cut up for “not having a mic” like “what, are you too poor to afford a microphone?” the same has happened to a good friend who never talks as she’s female and is immediately persecuted or objectified. It’s a shame you can’t record some of the things said on live though and I also agree this should be an included feature. Trash talk is fine and I don’t have a problem with it when it’s generic, but when it crosses over into hardcore verbal abuse, I don’t think it should be taken lightly.
Posted by crossifre on January 1, 2008 at 9:59 am
Hi, Nice post. I have just sarted muting people (mainly Americans) for abuse just because i am British. I speak to a friend in a game lobby and i dont get to finish the sentence as som loud mouthed oaf tells me to “shut the f*** up britsh B******”. what have i done wrong for just speaking?? Xbox Live if good when a room of people just get along with no bickering. Im not just saying its Americans who are abusive but they contribute the majority of abuse. Happy Gaming people and remember just mute idiots.
Posted by Mute-tacular! « mendokusai.org on September 26, 2008 at 5:43 am
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