Yesterday I featured an article written by one of my favorite guest writers, Excardon, that broached the subject of female gamers from a male’s perspective. One Gamer’s Experience and Perspective on Female Gamers is an insightful and informative read but above everything else, it is honest. All of his statements are the truth as he sees it. I would imagine he was a little nervous writing an article covering this subject matter in particular, especially considering the fact that it was going to be published on a female gamer’s blog.
When I read over the first draft he sent me, I will admit that I bristled a few times. A handful of his points in particular hit rather close to home for me. I abstained from stating my opinion within the comments of his article as I wanted to dedicate an entire article to my response. Of course I have an opinion on it. I am, after all, me. I have an opinion on everything which you are about to see. It must be your lucky day.
I will quote the area of his article in which I am responding to and then I will state my opinion on it. Off we go.
When I first started getting into the Halo community I noticed a couple trends on forums that tends to still be consistent to this day. If a male gamer introduces himself some people say, “Hello and welcome”, and that may continue on for a few posts and then dies off when new people arrive to the forum to post their introduction. However, if a female gamer posts an introduction, they are usually welcomed by a lot more, if not all, of the members of the forum they are posting in and their thread stays active for many days, or possibly months. Check it out for yourself. I’m sure you’ll find this trend to be true.
Generally speaking, I find this to be a true statement. I have gone to numerous forums and started an introduction thread that never received the light of day. However, I have gone to several more communities and started an introduction thread and received a very warm and large welcome. Whether or not males receive the same reception I cannot confirm nor deny. I haven’t tracked those specifics.
As far as staying active for many days or months, I will fess up to this. These are the current statistics for all threads on the Gunslinger boards (my clan forums). Board statistics are 195,751 posts in 10,049 topics by 474 members.
Top 10 Topics (by Replies)
- The TTL.PG OGame Alliance 3501
- Gunslinger Saloon 3010
- Riddle me this Riddle me that 1885
- bs angel 1263
- Chubby’s Drawings 1140
- War Room 1095
- Trading Post 987
- Aww, stu… 849
- Ask Pachango 788
- Movie Quotes 759
Top 10 Topics (by Views)
- The TTL.PG OGame Alliance 15820
- Riddle me this Riddle me that 15543
- Gunslinger Saloon 14861
- Chubby’s Drawings 9969
- bs angel 7321
- Movie Quotes 6039
- Trading Post 6038
- War Room 5944
- Ask Pachango 4850
- The Official ” What are you listening to right now ” Thread 4755
I get teased about these statistics every now and again by my clanmates. Would the most obvious answer to the longevity of my profile thread be my gender? Yes, but I chose to believe something else. I have formed many lasting friendships within the walls of my clan home. That coupled with the fact that I am very active there (I am the sixth top poster) keeps my thread alive. If people stop by to chat in my thread, I am right there alongside them enjoying the conversation. My thread stays active because I have the pleasure of interacting with so many quality people there and I believe that to be unrelated to my gender.
A little while back in August of 2006, my wife and I formed the Halo 2 Junkies, which is the competitive community team for the website http://halo2.junk.ws. At first to get established and find challenges we needed to head out and find teams willing to face us. Throughout our year in existence we came up with a certain way we could easily get challenges when we needed them. “What’s that?” you ask? Well, it’s quite simple. My wife made the challenge requests when we were hurting for them. Once she issued the challenge, the response was almost immediate in most cases. As for myself, it usually took a few days to a week and if I heard nothing I just got her to post and magically someone would respond. To this day, my wife usually gets most of the questions about the Junkies although now that we are established it is starting to even out in terms of people approaching us with questions about the team.
I am a Challenge Captain within my own clan and perform the same job that Excardon’s wife does. My situation is a slightly different though. I don’t go out and shop for challenges. I accept them when they come to our doorstep. If I were to go out and solicit challenges, would I get more acceptances because I am a female? It is hard to tell.
I will say this. When someone comes over looking for a challenge, each and every worthy call is answered. I never stop to check anybody’s gender. An opponent is an opponent, plain and simple. I hope that attitude is a universal one instead of a rarity. I have faith that other people shoot virtual bullets indiscriminately as I do. All it takes for me to shoot at you is for you to be an enemy. (Although sometimes it doesn’t even take that, I kill teammates equally as well. Oops.)
Another big example comes to mind is a Halo community of all female gamers who call themselves The Cavegirls. I first off want to say that the girls in that community are very nice people and have done good things for the community as well as others outside of Halo (i.e. the Fight Like a Girl tournament that raised money for breast cancer research). I am only using them as an example here and nothing more.
This example comes to you in the form of a question and my question to you is this : “Would they be as well known and receive the attention they get from communities and even the folks at Bungie if they weren’t female?” Maybe they would, but unfortunately I think not as much if this were the case. I personally believe that I would have been big fans of them if it was in fact this way. Anyone who does the awesome stuff they do gets a thumbs up in my book. However, sadly I think many people would have pushed them off to the wayside and it would have given them a harder time to become established within the community if they were an all male group.
I will not pretend I am giving an unbiased response to this particular subject. I am a Cavegirl and have been for three years. This is a group that is near and dear to my heart. My opinion comes from knowing this community inside and out.
Yes, I will agree to the fact that we probably would not have been recognized as early as we had been if we were not an all female gaming group. That being said, the reason why we have maintained our presence is because of who we are. You can be recognized for something that is entirely undeserving (such as your gender) but you cannot earn and keep a reputation for it. That has to be deserved.
We perhaps received our first Humpday Challenge because of our gender. However we received our second Humpday Challenge because Bungie enjoyed our company, respected our sportsmanship, and reveled in our overall passion and attitude towards the game. That has nothing to do with being female.
The Cavegirls are unique in the fact that not only are we extremely passionate about gaming but we are equally as passionate about the community and also life in general. We host tournaments. We participate in community events. We play in clan challenges. We raise money for charity. We go to real life gaming events. We support each other. We support others. We support the gaming community in which we have fallen in love. We genuinely care and that comes across to everybody who has gotten to know us. So while we may have been rushed to the spotlight because we happen to be an all female group, we have stayed there because we truly are nice people. Well, most of the time anyways. *nudge
Overall, I agree with his general thought that female gamers receive more attention for gender reasons alone. However I have to disagree for that being the reason for longevity related subjects. Being a female will bring you into the spotlight. It will not give you an automatic positive reputation though. That has to be earned.
If you haven’t read Excardon’s entire article, I suggest you hop on over and give it a read. It’s well written, it’s insightful, and I think even I learned a few things. Perhaps you will as well.
Posted by Stuicide on September 13, 2007 at 7:37 am
Your profile thread stands at the top of most replies not because you’re a girl, but because you are a socialable person.
You interact with your clanmates on a personal level, and always end up with little jokes from nights of gaming. This turns into people posting in your thread.
Also, “Chubby’s Drawing” is a new topic title… I should go look for it.
Posted by bs angel on September 13, 2007 at 7:41 am
LOL … I didn’t want anybody misinterpreting that title. That didn’t look so good when everything was on the ordered list. : )
And thank you for your thoughts regarding the profile thread. I appreciate that.
Posted by Fezzer on September 13, 2007 at 7:59 am
Good read and good points.
There is no denying that you will get extra attention in some areas for being a girl. I’ve noticed that’s just how it is.
However, you can live off the gender factor and ride it till the cows come home, but you cannot make yourself unique without a vibrant personality and interest in other people. That’s what will keep people coming back long after the “OMG its a girl” effect wears off.
Posted by Cayote on September 13, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I appreciate your perspective!
Posted by Excardon on September 14, 2007 at 8:09 am
I figure I’d leave my main comment here since this is the follow up.
“You can be recognized for something that is entirely undeserving (such as your gender) but you cannot earn and keep a reputation for it. That has to be deserved.”
This is what sets the Cavegirls a cut above the rest. I totally believe that the Cavegirls would be at the same place they are at today, as mentioned in my article however the road traveled may (but may have not) have been a little different.
The one thing I find how true this statement is becoming, is through another female community who is pretty well known but however has oddly gotten some bad feedback in terms of attitude (which ironically the attitude I heard being portrayed summed up the clan name) from some of the communities I’ve had a pleasure to become friends with.
I don’t know much about that clan though and how they are widely viewed so it’ll be interesting to see what happens in the next few years and its something I may even keep an eye on out of curiosity.
Many of my experiences and things I witness actually come from my own community in which I have seen many of the younger guys do basically what I described that happens about when males stop in and give an introduction opposed to females.
My second half of my article was pertaining to one of the larger groups of who play Halo, which is the male teenager. As we all know (and this is pertains to the folks who’ve “been there” already), when we were younger we only saw and went by what our first impression was and rarely bother to dig deeper into why it is so.
With this in mind, I am also simply serving a note of caution to communities out there be aware not to give off a perspective of playing favorites when it comes to certain things. Although I may know and you may know you’re not doing this; outsiders may think otherwise based solely on a simple first impression. I also want to add that I know TTL is not guilty of this. They definitely show fairness to everyone and judge only on one’s personality and not their outer makeup.
Anyways, great response bs angel and thanks for the opportunity to be on your blog yet again!
~Excardon
Posted by bs angel on September 14, 2007 at 9:53 am
I enjoyed your article tremendously Excardon. I agreed with the points you made and simply wanted to expand on them a bit. It was fascinating reading a (mature) male’s opinion on this topic. Thanks for sharing with us. : )
Posted by Bertnell on October 29, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Ladies, not to worry, most hard core games are male, and there are a few things to consider: A: its rare to meet females who take there gaming as seriously as guys. B: just like on the play ground no guy wants to be beat or thing that a lady is better at a game them him especially mail oriented games. C: Most guys would like to meet get to know a female that takes games to heart as we do. So yes you get lots of play online but its all good your ladies and you should get attention its the way of the world even the virtual one. P.S. CHeck out that new D-Link Extreme Game Lounge!!!! GOt to get it!!!!
Posted by Florence Elsley on November 2, 2007 at 4:57 pm
OK I know this is a pretty old post and I’m just commenting on it now. I just thought I’d leave my comments too. I’m not really an Xbox/Xbox360 Live player (yet but soon to be) I usually play Playstation 2 and 3 games. One of my very first online experience in Playstation was playing Socom I. I was practically one of the first female players to ever log on that game since I got it the same day it came out, logged on and played it as soon as I got it (Yes… I took a vacation day from work that day!). At first it was pretty hard being a female player in a male-dominated Online game. I hear guys yelling at me on my first day because I cant kill people it was frustrating at first, but after a few logons and watching other people play, I caught on pretty quick (within 48 hours) and started owning people. Its crazy how guys react to female gamers… it’s a love-hate experience for me. Most guys practically worshiped me and became my groupie…LOL yes as dumb as that may sound…it’s true. This is because I was one of the best female gamers in that Online community. Other guys practically cursed me out and talk trash, and I’m not even gonna post what names I’ve been called. Back in Socom 1 female gamers are very limited, then again I was just speaking about one game. I don’t know what other online games came out then.
After Socom 2 came out, (met my husband in Socom 1) and had a baby around the end of Socom 2, I rarely played. All those years I’ve seen how the online gaming community are welcoming more and more female players! I was so excited! That’s why I love this blog… having someone who is a mom and a gamer makes me think how awesome us female gamers can be. I’ve seen other female games online when I started playing Socom 3 and I tell ya… there is at least 2-3 females in 1 clan, that’s not counting clanless female gamers. I’m really really excited about this! Oh and you know online girl Cat fights happen… I know because I’ve seen one surface while I was on the same team and in the opposite team. How competitive us women can be when it comes to Online Gaming…it’s hillarious and inspiring!
Okay so much for my loooong rant. Girl Gamers Rule!
Posted by nshadowsong on March 27, 2008 at 11:00 am
This is a response to Excardon’s article, but I wanted to post it on your blog also because I like the point you bring up ^_^ Cheers!
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I’m glad you bring into light some solid points. I am a female gamer and when I do play games, say like on Xbox live or over the net, I don’t try to call attention to my gender. I have been playing since I was a wee’bitt, starting with the NES and have continued doing so. Although I’ve played many genres, FPS is and has always been my favorite. However, that is also where I witness the friction between genders/gamers the most. It wasn’t until I started playing Counter-Strike 1.5 and later on a clan that I really started to notice the two “typical males” you talk about: 1) the ones who can’t shut it about the cat calls and sexist jokes 2) the ones who can’t stop the woman-bashing.
As with all games, you need to consider the type of games it is and the kinda players involved. Definitely, not all guys are like that and there are some awesome players out there. Certainly the FPS is still a genre catered towards males simply because of its nature. But I’ve noticed in games like World of Warcraft, where the content caters towards both sexes, the presence of those kinda guys and their kinda talk has been practically nonexistent in my experience. Maybe one of the reasons for that is because the nature of WoW gets you into the mindset of Alliace or Horde, or Paladin/Warrior/Priest, etc. But that’s another topic for another day. Excuse my ranting @_@”
BS Angel brings up a point when she says:
“An opponent is an opponent, plain and simple. I hope that attitude is a universal one instead of a rarity. I have faith that other people shoot virtual bullets indiscriminately as I do.”
As a female gamer, I want my opponents and teammates to judge me not by my gender, but by my ability to play the game, my ability to play on the team, and my ability to strategize, know when to follow the leader, and know when to lead. I personally want to earn the respect when it comes to serious gaming with teammates.
Sure, there are things you need to overcome first if you are a female gamer at times, like initial impressions, or the cat calls, or the sexist jokes–whatever. Because of the bias that exists, you may have to double the effort to “earn the respect” of your teammates as they say. This is not only limited to gaming, but to our society at large. I think women in general feel that they need to prove themselves more because of the social constructions we put on ideas of maleness or femaleness that already exist in the country. So it is no surprise to me that female gamers can feel so similarly.
Then again, now that things like XBL chat exists, or Skype, Vent, basically any kind of program that allows for in-game chat, we have to consider our perceptions of people from different ethnicity and age. You bring up the point about noticing people with accent, people who may be young or old. I think we have to check ourselves from perpetuating stereotypes based on these things. We also need to remind ourselves that these things don’t define a group of people as a whole. Whether it is a female, a Mexican, a child, an Asian, a man, whoever it is, we need to remind ourselves that however they play and however they may act in-game is not representative of their gender, ethnicity, age group as a whole. We can’t fall back into stereotypes.
In the idealistic gaming world, I think people should be judged on their gaming, thinking, and communication skills.
In the era of the Wii, DS, casual games, and even comics becoming more accepted in Hollywood, I think the public in general is becoming more receptive of video games. So I think this certainly helps to start diluting these stereotypes in the gaming community.
As a person who wants to see the gaming community grow and be accepted by the public at large, not just as a hobby that little kids play, but as a viable form of entertainment, I can get pretty passionate about issues like these. I want to see gaming move forward positively in every aspect if possible. If it going to be a respectable, acceptable, and genuine source of competition, entertainment, and hobby, we need to keep ourselves from falling into and furthering stereotypes.
Posted by nshadowsong on March 27, 2008 at 11:29 am
Woops! Sorry about double-posting. I got so into it that I thought I was posting on his blog! lol I hope you can delete
Posted by bs angel on March 27, 2008 at 12:20 pm
The comments are on two different articles, and they are relevant to both! People may not read both articles so I think it is perfect to have it on each. :)
Posted by Waffle Deluxe on February 21, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Party on Wayne!